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tnfilmgirl
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# Posted: 27 Nov 2013 09:31
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Hello all, I live in Middle Tennessee and recently purchased a piece of land about 45 minutes East of Nashville..The property is on two sides of a little country road. There are utilities on one side, where an old house that burnt down use to be..on the other side is a wooded little holler, with three old trees which are believed to be some of the oldest in the county....We have recently started building a 16 x28 cabin in a small clearing in the holler side of the property. The cabin is being built in a little south facing clearing that gets full sun all year. For many reason we have chosen to not have the cabin connected to the power grid, the main one being the trees that some how survived the Civil War and the last 150+ years....So, we need advice. My husband has contacted several reputable solar installers and every single one has come out and given us different recommendations...we will need lighting, to run a small chest freezer used as a fridge and maybe a 5000 btu window unit in the summer.,,Our water is gravity feed from a cistern up above the site. Stove , water heater will be propane...and this cabin will mainly be used on the weekends ..PLEASE make any suggestion or give any advice you may have....
Much thanks in advice,
Lee
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tnfilmgirl
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# Posted: 27 Nov 2013 09:33
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oh, and my 20 year old daughter just told me that if need be we could charge batteries across the street where we do have power , I am sure she is right but I am just checking......thanks much
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 27 Nov 2013 10:05
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Quoting: tnfilmgirl 5000 btu window unit
For a weekend only cabin you might look at using a Honda or Yamaha inverter generator for running the A/C unit. The best type of A/C to use in a solar power situation is a mini split heat pump type of A/C. More expensive than a window unit and the smallest has a larger capacity.
Using a generator for the A/C would reduce the battery capacity by a large amount.
Q? How does the water get into the cistern? And BTW, gravity will produce 0.43 PSI per foot of elevation difference between source and point of use, less friction losses within the pipes.
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VTweekender
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# Posted: 27 Nov 2013 10:11 - Edited by: VTweekender
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Fridge and AC would require a rather large solar system, if you put it together yourself probably in the 5K to 8K range, much more if done by an installer.......I would go out and spend $1,500 on a new Honda 3000 generator instead.....install a small $800 solar system for lights and TV....fire up generator when you need to run AC, the fridge can run from the generator an hour just periodically to keep it cold enough.
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groingo
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# Posted: 27 Nov 2013 11:06 - Edited by: groingo
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First I would determine what your power requirements are then double it.
Depending on your budget I would 1. Since power is available nearby either talk to your neighbors and run a line from their place to yours and re-emburse them for power used or 2. Hook up to the grid or 3. Buy a generator and use only when you need it.
The only reason solar might be in the mix is it is just something you feel you must do, but this can become a very expensive experiment.
Dollar for dollar, I would talk to your neighbor about sharing the hookup till you get settled in better.
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SandyR
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# Posted: 27 Nov 2013 13:34
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Weekends only with suggestions and advice?
My suggestion is that you go without all of these things for one year and see if you really do want these things. Down the road you may say to yourself, "whatever made me think I was going to use A/C?!" or you may say to yourself in a year, " OMG I can't go another year without the A/C!" but at least you will know what you really want.
I have never found it to be too hot in the woods at any time during the day, especially at night.
If you are only staying for the weekends a cooler or two will work perfectly well! I have traveled all over the US with only a cooler for weeks and it was all good 
I have used propane energy before for a stove, fridge and lights. ( I believe they have not made propane fridges in decades though ) Next year when we get our cabin up we have decided on a woodstove and lanterns instead. Propane is expensive here.
I guess my suggestions are to go without and add on when you are certain you really do need/want these things.
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hueyjazz
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# Posted: 27 Nov 2013 14:28
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Propane or (natural gas if available) is an interesting option and they do still make propane freezers, fridges and AC units but you will pay a high premium for these gas units.
You will need some electric for the fans in the units but is should be a light load. If you go small I'm sure you can find RV units that will work. Maybe even some of those used say on Ebay. This is a new unit.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Norcold-N841-RV-Camper-Refrigerator-2-Way-LP-Gas-Propane-Elec tric-7-5-Cubic-Feet-/400606707717
The items you mention wanting to run except for the lights (which I would go all LED with) have a high electric amp draw when they kick on. Worse yet when more than one kicks on. For propane refrigeration devices you use the heat from a gas pilot light to evaporate the refrigerant to start the cooling process instead of a electric compressor. Plus, you have gas available for a cook stove and oven. You could even power a generator.
If this is strictly for weekend use with no need to maintain these devices than the generator is the far easier and cheaper option than solar and premium priced appliances. Plan "B" of moving many pounds of deep cycle batteries will lose it's thrill real quick.
Like the old timber and civil war stuff.
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MPL
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# Posted: 18 Dec 2013 12:36
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If you plan the energy infrastructure properly you should be able to add to the system as your needs progress or more funds become available.
At approximately $3000 (DIY with guidance) you can create a Solar Electric system with battery back up/storage, capable of running a small fridge (AC/DC), LED lights, coffee pot, small microwave or LCD/LED TV. The integrated system includes one inverter/controller with a 24v battery bank and a couple solar PV panels. If additional power is required and you don't want to add more panels or if space prohibits the addition of more panels, you can augment your power with an existing or future Gen-Set with auto switch.
Refrigeration (Gas):
A "Dometic Servel" Propane/Gas Refrigerator is available. Unit has backup AC function if propane runs out. (I have been running
45 year old unit for 10+ years). If purchased new be sure to add
the fresh air intake and outside venting.
Refrigeration (AC and/or DC or combined)
A Sun Frost (frig/freezer) AC unit Model RF4 = 4 Cu Ft @ 76kWh annual power usage) which is a counter top unit. Larger units are available as appropriate.
LED Lighting:
Purchase either "retrofit" AC housings or "new" construction light housing and retrofit with Hatch LED 60w driver (power supply) to allow for as few as one LED light fixture on a circuit. (no flicker or strobing will occur), (50,000 hour LED lamp at 15 watt load = minimal load / draw). (LED size = Par 20 or Par 30 lamp or diffused lens BR 20 or BR30)
OR.....just to get out the gate:
Use a couple of Enphase M260 DC to AC microinverters @ $175.00 + shipping, (2) 290w solar panels + Ground or roof mount rack + 10/3 w Ground wire to 20 amp breaker (QO Electric box with 12 breaker capacity) and you can grow as you have $$ to "Micro-Grid" (e.g. Solar, Grid, Battery auto generation).
Regards,
MPL (the old solar guy in the woods)
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rockies
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# Posted: 18 Dec 2013 17:17 - Edited by: rockies
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Buying all this solar equipment to run your cabin, plus sourcing out appliances and alternate fuel sources seems like a lot of work and expense if you have power sitting on the other side of the road. I would look into having the power line extended underground and then adding in solar and propane in the future. It can take years and years to get back the money spent to install solar, and prices are always coming down on solar equipment while quality improves. If you do have the power line extended, make sure you get a little device that measures the electrical usage of everything you own. After a year or so you will have a much better idea of how much energy you use and what equipment you'll need to buy to run it. Plus if you do have the power line extended, you can use a "grid-tied" system and reduce the cost of your solar a lot because you can sell back the excess power you don't need, and you won't have the cost and maintenance of a battery bank.
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silverwaterlady
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# Posted: 18 Dec 2013 19:11 - Edited by: silverwaterlady
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A cabin in the full sun in TN in the summer with no AC would be a nightmare. 
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MPL
Member
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# Posted: 18 Dec 2013 19:50
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Someone previously mentioned VAV split system AC units are reasonably priced. (Mitsubishi single or multi-zone) $1000 or less
wholesale.
OR
If water temperature at cistern remains cool during the summer use heat exchanger in cistern with underground piping to cabin with digital fan coil for cool air. (via Uponor EcoFlex insulated twin pipe) drain during winter months. The other alternate is Uponor "Joist Trak - staple up" aluminum radiant plates under sub-floor with 1/2 pex then install rigid insulation for radiant floor cooling with added dehumidifier.
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rockies
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# Posted: 18 Dec 2013 20:37
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I would be hesitant about installing a radiant system in a hot humid climate and then using that system for cooling. The cool pipes will naturally pull moisture from the air through any crack in the flooring, or around the baseboard and cause condensation on the pipes. It may take a while to happen, but I think eventually you will have a lot of mold and rot around those cool pipes. Warm (or empty) pipes shouldn't have any problem with condensation.
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rockies
Member
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# Posted: 18 Dec 2013 20:49
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Hi, SandyR. Why not consider an "indoor" wood furnace which can be placed in a small outbuilding instead of a woodstove in the main cabin? The woodstove is best used in late fall, winter and early spring, but the rest of the time it just takes up valuable floor space. By putting the indoor furnace in an outbuilding you remove all the mess, soot, mold and bugs from inside the main cabin and you can also get hot water for free for the shower, washer, sinks, etc. I plan on using this one.
http://www.profab.org/products/profabproducts/elite/
You can even use the furnace all summer because the unneeded excess heat isn't inside your main living space.
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