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groingo
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# Posted: 2 Jan 2015 21:31
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Checked my email yesterday and it showed the replacement panel was due for delivery friday but there was something odd, it showed the box only weighed 3 pounds, well they were closed yesterday so I contacted them today to see if they could explain it and they agreed someone must have goofed and just shipped me the box but that they would overnight me a panel.....ok.
Late this afternoon the box shows with guess what inside....a panel, so I contacted them to tell them it did in fact have a panel and to stop the overnight replacement, unfortunately, the boss had left for the day and couldn't be reached and the package had already been picked up.
So,as of tomorrow I will have two new panels and Monday we will play lets make a deal and see what can be haggled out, besides I was considering adding two panels in the future, anyone not believe in Kharma now?
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spoofer
Member
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# Posted: 3 Jan 2015 08:00
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Hah Hah I love Renogy!
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Steve_S
Member
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# Posted: 3 Jan 2015 11:33
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Hmmm and this is the way 2015 starts for you eh... lookin like your off to an interestin start for sure... Good Luck on swinging a decent deal.
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groingo
Member
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# Posted: 3 Jan 2015 13:38
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I decided I don't need or want any more Renogy stuff regardless, just been too many headaches so will get these panels shipped monday and move forward....I guess enough is enough.
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Scott G
Member
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# Posted: 3 Jan 2015 16:43
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A wild ride with Renogy, that's for sure. I was seriously considering their products but after reading your posts I've backed way off.
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creeky
Member
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# Posted: 3 Jan 2015 18:26
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get real solar panels. geez. 400 watts of "r" 100 watts panels is junk for 600 bucks. really. you want to pay 50% more for "hobby" panels vs buying quality?
wish I had 200 bucks to throw in the garbage.
600 watts of the best quality 300 watt panels (so less wiring) can be had for less than 600 bucks. Even not cheap online solar places have 250 watt top quality panels for less than 250 each. So for less than 500 you can have a) 25% more power for b) 25% less money.
So somebody comes to you, says hey, I'll sell you a beater car (but wait, you get an extra beater in case the first one breaks down) for the same price as one top of the line cadillac with warranty and you can only ever drive one car at a time ... would you take the beaters?
sheesh.
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groingo
Member
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# Posted: 3 Jan 2015 21:20 - Edited by: groingo
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Creeky:
The panels have done very well with one exception which doesn't seem to effect power output but it's under warranty so why not use it.
My power needs as you may remember are far less than yours, mine are 0.250 kwh a day and I have only used my generator three times one for 12 hour charge and two test charges of 3 and 3.5 hours since September 20 2014. Being only 400 watts, a PWM 30 amp charge controller, two Crown 235 ah batteries and an old 400 watt inverter yep it has been cost effective and is easy to resell and recoup all costs if need be.
This is what I would term my getting my feet wet or first system to see what I can improve on.
Truthfully you are partially right, were I to do it again I would opt for
two 250 watt panels, keep the cheepo 30 amp charge controller (just works great) and upsize the battery capacity but that would be it.
As solar goes now, it serves its purpose till I get the thermo electric
which is currently running all computer, lighting and internet needs, so solar could be relegated to backup power.
So think what you want, we both do things very differently.
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 3 Jan 2015 23:06
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Small systems have some unique problems, IMO. Most solar equipment in geared towards larger systems. I would like to add some solar to our converted (to travel trailer) cargo trailer. I have two batteries similar to groingo's Crowns.
Certainly larger wattage panels (250+ watts) are much more cost effective per watt than any 100 watt panels. BUT, the larger panels cost more in freight, especially on an order of only one or two panels, where freight can cost as much or more as one or two large panels. AND the high voltage output requires an MPPT controller. That will cost $300 as there is no sense in buying cheap junk.
It's easier to design a larger system these days.
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creeky
Member
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# Posted: 4 Jan 2015 09:58
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Groingo, for sure it's a journey. I started with 120 watts of 12v panels, 200 amp hrs with 2 6v golf cart batteries too. My main system had a pwm charger before I upgraded to mppt. But I sure wish somebody had told me, correctly, that mppt was way better than pwm.
And, as you point out, it's easy to sell older equipment. I got what I paid for the pwm charger when I upgraded.
Once you go over 300 watts of panels tho, that ain't so tiny any more. so I think it's important folks hear that using a lot of small panels is not the best solution when much better large panels are available.
not to belabour the point, but I found 500 watts of 48v 250 watt chinese solar panels on sale used for 400 bucks. So for less money I got more input and the panels have nice features like fancy self cleaning glass. It's cool to see bird, ah, dirt on a panel at ten a.m. and by early afternoon it's gone.
The 200 bucks I saved also nicely subsidizes an mppt controller. a controller that will add 30% to your power production for decades. As well as handle a wider range of panels.
MtnDon, if you watch craigslist you might find some locals selling panels. I know I see them on kijiji (canada's craigslist) regularly. you guys have, what is it, yakusa or something too. I know I found a travel trailer there five years ago.
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groingo
Member
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# Posted: 4 Jan 2015 11:15 - Edited by: groingo
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Creeky:
There seems to be one key element you keep over looking....I don't need anything bigger because my average power use per day is under 1/4 of a kwh a day or less that 250 watts in 24 hours, so anything that provides for more than that is simply wasted, unusable or senseless.
I have tried the Kid controller which after 30 days and the numbers just didn't show any clear advantage over what I am already using Mppt and 400 watts is not what you want to use for such a small system, mppt advantage is recovering energy line loss over larger areas, but you already knew that.
As far as cheap junk panels, they are made to the same standards as the rest including in an ISO grade facility, the panels have worked very well and in fact above specs regularly, the only problem has been hidden damage during shipping but that has been narrowed to a sorting machine used by FedEx.
Now, if you stay on topic the message here is that Renogy the company has some real service issues as well as product quality issues which some may want to be aware of....nothing more....no rants just facts as they happen.
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Bret
Member
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# Posted: 4 Jan 2015 13:09
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Both sides of this discussion are important to me. I've been looking at solar, both passive and active since the early 70's. Well, my wife and I have built a 16x20 cabin and the plan is to be off grid for many reason. One is as a teaching tool. After plugging all the info on wattage to be used, it looks like 500 watts of solar panel will do all that is required. So i've been looking at smaller panles 140 watt and pwm charge controller such as the new one from Bogart Eng. But the higher wattage panels 250 are way better price wise, but need mppt. I'm juggling two possiblilties. So this dicussion is of great benefit to me. Thanks for keeping the ideas flowing.
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creeky
Member
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# Posted: 4 Jan 2015 14:17
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Groingo and Bret. Yes, mppt reduces line loss. But more importantly it also greatly increases power production in the early morning and late afternoon, under partial shading etc.
I was amazed at the difference I saw when I went from pwm to mppt. esp with partial shading. which, really. is everyday. cloud. haze. birds. i have a lot of trees. etc.
and on the 400 watts to 235 amp hr. 5 years ago (well 7 actually) when I started my solar research I soon noticed those who were effectively using solar and were "happy" had 1 watt of solar at 1 amp (@12v) storage. After 5 years of solar production myself I'm at almost 2 watts of solar per amp. Even in a high insolation area (except for oct thru dec) like I live in. More watts is more devices. Clearly that responds to my needs. I need internet for my job/life. And an electric fridge saves me on groceries/propane/high initial fridge purchase.
As I've pointed out, my electric fridge ($400). Propane fridge (in Canada about $1.44k, we can quibble, plus $1.25/day in propane). "Solar" electric fridge ($2k). So mppt controller (500) and 500 more watts of panels (400). Money well spent.
Groingo I super respect that you use .25 kw per day. Seriously. And now with 400 watts you could use .8kw per day. so leave a few lights on. 
my apologies for a) the panels are probably fine. but note that "large" panels are being made in vastly greater quantities with superior materials. and b) going off topic. was it on topic in the sense that getting better quality panels for less money would have saved you some heartache/work/phone calls?
and Bret thanks for posting. I often only bring things up because i know other people are reading too. I hope I'm not being rude to "g" or "r". It's just the time, money and trouble I had setting my system up makes me want to help others avoid those learning experiences and go straight to making mistakes of their own ... 
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groingo
Member
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# Posted: 4 Jan 2015 16:26
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Creeky:
Use MORE POWER ....talk like that is sacrilege, and could get you tar and feathered or worse yet make me one of "them" ......yikes!
With me it has always been "less is more" within reason.
Never sacrifice quality for price within reason.
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creeky
Member
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# Posted: 4 Jan 2015 16:46
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I'm with you. less is more. more free time. more creative solutions. more joy. for sure.
my grand uncles were train engineers, so riding the rails has always had a certain appeal. never really saw the tar and feathers suit tho. is it warm?
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groingo
Member
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# Posted: 4 Jan 2015 18:35
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Long as I don't slide backwards I will never know!
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