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MtnDon
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# Posted: 8 Apr 2015 16:00
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...in development..... low cost, low flammability..... two electrodes: a negatively charged anode made of aluminum and a positively charged cathode...... The electrolyte is basically a salt that's liquid at room temperature, so it's very safe..... able to withstand more than 7,500 cycles ......
from Stanford
from Engadget
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groingo
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# Posted: 8 Apr 2015 19:48
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This is one reason I'm not going to rush into Lithium because there are a lot of big changes coming to the energy storage market the next couple of years, capacities will double charge times will drop as will prices plus we should see what the numbers look like soon on the new Tesla home battery.....cost is going to be key on all of them.
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creeky
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# Posted: 8 Apr 2015 20:18
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ha ha ha. I saw this earlier. it's a beaut.
(right now) very similar to lead acid in weight to energy. but double/triple/quadruple the lifespan and of course high charge/discharge performance. in fact amazing charge capacity.
still vapour ware. there are technologies (lithium) that have up to 10 times the power storage per kg and are available now.
Please Mr. Musk. how much for your home battery? can I pick up mine today? (and is it true. $300/kw. ahhh. there's the rub).
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creeky
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# Posted: 8 Apr 2015 20:22
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groingo you posted ahead of me.
charge efficiency. and cost. that's why lithium makes sense now. but this summer looks like the start of sometink big.
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 8 Apr 2015 21:49
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I do not think lithium batteries will decrease in price. China has the largest deposits, and the demand for lithium will likely continue to increase. Lithium is expensive and the demand is more likely to increase the price. Semi-conductors and many other things have decreased in price as the methods for production were refined. Unless the production can be improved to use less lithium per capacity I believe the price will go up.
Aluminum and common salts are, OTOH plentiful and cheap. We'll have to wait and see how this pans out. It could be great, it could also have some unseen issues.
In the meantime we can each choose what direction, what battery tech is correct for our own purposes.
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groingo
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# Posted: 8 Apr 2015 22:14
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From the looks of it in the coming two years for the automotive market they are all looking at doubling range via new Lithium battery developments which is great news and will quickly trickle down but Tesla's my bet on bleeding edge tech now and they are slated to formally announce the home battery near the end of this month.
Seems like just yesterday they were touting how Iron Oxide was going to leave Lithium in the dust.
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Steve_S
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# Posted: 9 Apr 2015 04:47
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Sadly, any new battery technology invented / developed will take a bare minimum of 5 years to get to market and 10 before production costs and availability make it cost effective & viable. The industry has feet of clay and there are many interests that keep the clay wet & heavy.
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bldginsp
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# Posted: 9 Apr 2015 23:23
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How many "breakthroughs" have we seen that didn't come to fruition with batteries. This aluminum salt thing looks good, I'll believe it when I see it. If it really did work, would Exxon allow it to go to market?
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 9 Apr 2015 23:47 - Edited by: MtnDon
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Quoting: bldginsp would Exxon allow it to go to market?
Have oil companies stopped the manufacture of PV panels? Or hybrid or electric vehicles?
I do agree we will have to take a wait 'n' see approach to see if the technology does mature as hoped for.
I also agree the development will take time just as the development and use of cheap transistors took time, replacements for incandescent light bulbs took time, replacements for carburetors took time, development of more efficient refrigeration took time......
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creeky
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# Posted: 11 Apr 2015 09:34
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On the cost of lithium batteries: cost per kw in 2012: $2000. Price you can pay today: $500. Price Tesla is paying Panasonic today: $180. Cost of raw materials today: $69.
http://cleantechnica.com/2014/10/13/battery-costs-may-drop-100kwh/
The cost is dropping fast. The cost today is already two years ahead of the predictions made just 5 years ago.
And even today: When a full on* LFP battery pack is $500/kw the economics still favour it over lead acid.
Here's hoping Tesla comes out with a good price. I can't wait.
* by full on I mean complete with BMS. Fuses. Plug and play. Ready to install. Not vapour ware.
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bldginsp
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# Posted: 11 Apr 2015 17:41 - Edited by: bldginsp
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Oil companies have not stopped solar panels and electric cars because they can't, but these in their present state pose little threat to them. But, if a cheap battery with high energy density that charged quickly were available, that would pose a serious threat to big oil. If Nissan Leafs got 300 miles to a charge, charged up in 15 minutes, and cost less than a comparable gas burner, the shift to electric would happen very quickly. I believe the oil companies would take any steps they possibly could to prevent this, if they were able. Maybe I'm just a silly conspiracy theorist.
A few well placed bullets could maintain high corporate profits for at least two or three more quarters before the inevitable decline begins. Just ask John Kennedy, who threatened the oil depletion allowance. Clint Murchison and the good ole' boys in Texas oil.
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Steve_S
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# Posted: 14 Apr 2015 09:57
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Here is an interesting article out of Australia, worth a read. Prices are falling and projected to continue doing so...
Battery costs drop even faster as electric car sales continue to rise
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