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Smawgunner
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# Posted: 25 Dec 2015 21:40
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I've got electric but no running water. It's just my wife and I every other weekend so I'm thinking of using an RV system with some modifications. The challeng is avoiding freeze. I'm in Ohio. I thought about burying a 55 gallon barrel. But can I use an inline non submersible pump? And for heat I thought about a 10 gallon electric hot water tank...or should I use on demand? I'm not going with propane so there's that. The only thing I'm running is two sinks and a shower. Let me know your thoughts and ideas.
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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 26 Dec 2015 04:33
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When you say you have electric, do you mean on-grid? If you are on-the-grid and your rates are reasonable, then I personally would have some sort of electric heat that has a thermostat to at least keep the place at 65. Do you need a water heater for two weekends a month or could you heat water on the stove for dishes and use a portable shower like this Zodi?
http://www.bigsupplyshop.com/Zodi-Outback-Gear-Extreme-Shower-wo-Stove-8140_p_61794.h tml
Then, yeah, you could bury a small water tank, put one in the attic/loft or crawl space and have a pump and pipe to your faucets. I'm trying to figure this part out, too, but I'm going to be living in my cabin full-time so my needs are a bit different.
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Steve_S
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# Posted: 26 Dec 2015 07:41
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Couple of thoughts I suppose...
1) Underground Tank - Frost Level.
You can go with an in-ground tank, as long as it can handle the pressure / weight. To reduce the frost depth exposure, you can place 2-4" of XPS Foam over the tank, extending a couple of feet beyond it which effectively reduces the frost depth line... same method can be applied to the water line to your cabin. It's not unusual to do this in my area.
2) Drain back.
You'll have to have a way to drain your water lines & fixtures so they do not freeze as well.
3) Hot Water:
-Tank;
If it is to have constant power (without interruptions) then it will use whatever wattage is required to keep it warm BUT the cold supply to it and supply from it could freeze IF cabin is not above 32F. Water Tank Blanket IS A MUST for energy savings !
-On-Demand;
Electric or propane is the most efficient if you've designed your plumbing accordingly (centrally located to all water fixtures VS down line @ one end as usual with "tanks"). IF unheated cabin then this needs to be drained back as well.
RV Water Tanks:
I do not have much experience with these BUT I have taken 2 RV Trailers apart which had tanks... These were the semi-flexible plastic type tanks which were wired for water level sensors but also a small heating element which kept water above 32F. While this seems to work for the application, I'm not sure about long term usage and the amount of power used by the warming element.
Outlet Thermostats !
There are a number of Outlet Thermostats that can be purchased. There is quite a choice of types from programmable to preset "cubes". They can be set to activate at X temperature & deactivate @ Y temperature, so if you were looking at heating coils or elements that you only want to run when cold this may be an option. The advantage is that they just plug into a 120V outlet and then your device (heater or whatever) into it.
Examples:
Lux WIN100 Heating & Cooling Programmable Outlet Thermostat
Willhi Wh1436 Ac 110v - 240v Digital Temperature Controller Thermostat Control Switch Unit 1 Relay Output with Sensor
OR Simpler PreSet models:
Farm Innovators Model TC-3 Cold Weather Thermo Cube Thermostatically Controlled Outlet - On at 35-Degrees/Off at 45-Degrees
Hope it helps or at least triggers thoughts for alternative solutions & options.
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Smawgunner
Member
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# Posted: 27 Dec 2015 14:21
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Thanks for the input Steve. Things I have not thought about. The cabin will not be heated year round. I have on grid electric though. I may just have to resort to water only in the warmer months.
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embo
Member
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# Posted: 4 Jan 2016 00:25
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I live up in Northern Ontario, currently sitting at -28c. One way to accomplish what you want is to install an in-ground cistern. Run a water line from it to the inside of the cabin, making SURE the line is on a slope. High end at cabin. Where the line comes in attach a tee connection. On the side tee run to pump (and then to sink etc), on the top of the tee install a check valve in reverse. Now when you run the pump the water will come up, along with some air, closing the check valve and supplying water where you want it. When you shut off the pump the check valve will open and allow water to run back into the cistern. It has never failed me at my bunkie.
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Julie2Oregon
Member
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# Posted: 6 Jan 2016 17:09
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embo
Very interesting. Is your cistern concrete or some other material? Where are the pipe fittings? Is the tee connection inside the cabin or underground?
Here's my situation. My land is level, there's quite a bit of rock underground. My cabin will have a crawl space. So I'm mulling how to do the cistern, as well. I will have bulk water delivered sometimes so access to a cistern port above ground will be necessary. I may or may not eventually do a well but, regardless, I'm aiming for simplicity. I really like what you've done!
I'm torn between having a large cistern underground piped to the cabin, a cistern for water storage with about a 200- to 300-gallon tank in the crawl space from which my faucets would be plumbed I can fill from the cistern periodically via a pump/hose, or some hybrid of these ideas.
What would you suggest? I'll be building this year. My land is in southern Oregon on a mountain and it can/does dip a bit below zero in the winter. Frost line is 2 feet.
Thanks!
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silverwaterlady
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# Posted: 6 Jan 2016 18:38
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I do not know one single person with a unheated cabin that has running water in the winter or when there is a chance for a freeze. They drain their water system and dry camp.
The people I know that rely on wood heat and are full timers with plumbing use propane heat as a supplement when they need to leave for long periods in the winter.
I personally was gone long periods of time at my city house,turned the water off,set the heat at 45F and had a sensor hooked up to my alarm system that would notify my company if the temperature dropped to 35F.
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Smawgunner
Member
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# Posted: 6 Jan 2016 18:42
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Yeah, I think I've come to that realization after extensive research. Our electric (on grid) is spotty in bad weather and too risky to chance heating anything. I initially hoped it would be something I could drain when not in use, but even that seems to taxing.
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silverwaterlady
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# Posted: 6 Jan 2016 18:48
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It would be because it would be difficult to completely drain the water out of everything.
We never have to worry about water damage or frozen pipes,water heaters or pumps. That is a load off our minds.
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