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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 2 Mar 2016 09:15
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This is what I have in mind. I budgeted $6K and that's about what it would be. (I have a separate budget for wiring and installation.)
The panels -- 3 X 325 watts Monocrystalline
http://www.wholesalesolar.com/1922325/solarworld/solar-panels/solarworld-sw325-xl-sil ver-mono-solar-panel
I think I would regret not doing lithium since that's the way everything seems to be heading. I don't want my system to be obsolete fairly soon after installation Soooo ...
5K lithium battery, 12 V
http://www.balqon.com/store-2/#!/12-Volt-5-kWhr/p/45284624/category=12286436
Balqon has redone its website and greatly improved info. Here's the user manual for the 5 kWhr battery:
http://www.balqon.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/HIQAP-ESS-USER-GUIDE-2015.pdf
Nothing in the guide says that the lithium battery requires a special inverter charger so I'm going to have to check on that. This is the inverter I've tentatively selected:
Magnum 2000 watt 12V
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002MW6PHG?colid=3CY2GZOQU4SY8&coliid=ISGUR8R5XMQB1& ref_=wl_it_dp_o_pd_S_ttl
And the tentative charge controller, a Midnight Solar Classic
http://www.wholesalesolar.com/3900141/midnite-solar/charge-controllers/midnite-solar- classic-150-mppt-charge-controller
Overkill? Miscalculations? Will I be happily accumulating wattage?
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Mountain Madness
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# Posted: 2 Mar 2016 12:55
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"Full Disclaimer"
I know nothing about solar equipment.
Maybe another option.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Renogy-1000-Watts-12-Volts-Monocrystalline-Solar-Cabin-Kit-/2 81785684129?var=&hash=item419bbc50a1:m:m--Sl9SNdm62wAqE2nUF8-w
Then add your battery and inverter. No tax or shipping.
It seems they have been selling quite a few of their panels.
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Coyote Flats
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# Posted: 2 Mar 2016 13:23
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Hi Julie are your loads just lighting, TV, RV pump are you having a fridge ? Just wondering . You definitely want to get it right the first time.
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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 2 Mar 2016 14:33
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Mountain Madness
That's a decent package. Some folks here have had good or mixed experiences with Renogy so I've kind of been leery.
I looked at packages -- Solar Warehouse has them, too -- and found that I wanted to swap out some things in them. The combiner boxes and such that are included aren't terribly expensive items. I think that the cost of buying those things in addition to my panels and charge controller would add up to the same as this package. SolarWorld panels have a higher efficiency rating.
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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 2 Mar 2016 14:41
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Coyote Flats
Yeah, three or four LED lights, TV (super energy-efficient one, I traded in my behemoth, lol), chest freezer, RV pump. Phone and laptop charging (but the inverter will do that in no time).
Oh, and portable washer, but I was thinking of running that off the generator. I might not have to do that, but still. It's very energy efficient but the spin cycle has a few seconds of surge watts when it gets started -- up to 800. Def something to run during sunny days if I did run it on solar.
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Coyote Flats
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# Posted: 2 Mar 2016 15:27
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That's good seems you have done your homework. Let me know what your charger/ investor is going to be for your lithium battery.
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 2 Mar 2016 15:34
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These are components that the installers recommend? How about Midnight surge protectors? For lightning surge protection.
Are panels to be in series/parallel or all in parallel? If all parallel have they recommended a combiner box with a fuse or breaker for each panel? When there are three or more parallel panels each one should be connected through a fuse/breaker in a combiner box.
You also need a suitable breaker for the inverter DC.
I would much rather have the panels J2O linked to than Renogy. That ebay seller shows a Midnight combiner box with 6 breakers but only includes 1 low amp breaker in the package contents. Breakers are not included in the Midnight combiners, though they may be illustrated. Beware
Midnight and Magnum are good.
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Brknarow
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# Posted: 2 Mar 2016 16:08 - Edited by: Brknarow
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Has anyone checked out these people? Their kits include batteries and ship free.
http://www.theinverterstore.com/12-volt-solar-kit-no-rack.html
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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 2 Mar 2016 16:46
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MtnDon
Yeah, I don't know enough about the electrical innards like fuses, connectors, cables, combiner boxes, etc. to choose those so I really want the installer to make those decisions based on my particular installation.
We already discussed the inverter and charge controller. I haven't run these particular panels by them yet but we talked about monocrystalline, efficiency, and having fewer higher-wattage panels.
When I get there, we can compare these components with a company in Bend they use called Zamp. Zamp offers small cabin kits but they're currently revising all of their kits so they're unavailable. I don't know when they will be.
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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 2 Mar 2016 16:59
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Brknarow
I did look at their kits. Bugged me that it didn't list any of the manufacturers or specs.
In the description, though, it said AIMS Power and I did find AIMS inverters at Amazon. It's an off-brand. The kits are rather expensive for polycrystalline panels and a cheap inverter.
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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 2 Mar 2016 17:03
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Coyote Flats
Regarding the Magnum inverter and the lithium battery, I found a site that states the Magnum will work with lithium. Now, I do need to verify that, double and triple check, lol, but I am initially hopeful, anyway.
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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 2 Mar 2016 17:37
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OK, this is kind of funny. I started Googling to see if I could find more competitive pricing on the SolarWorld panels and learned a bit more about the company and panels.
I already knew that the panels are American and well-regarded but I didn't know that they're produced in Hillsboro, Oregon, and the North American headquarters for SolarWorld is located there. Great reviews and quality, decent pricing.
I think it's all good, then, with SolarWorld panels. Glad to support the home team, too.
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 2 Mar 2016 18:23 - Edited by: MtnDon
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Quoting: Julie2Oregon AIMS Power
You will notice that Wholesale Solar and many others, generally recognized to be good solid vendors (solarblvd, NAWS, backwoods, thesolarbiz....) carry AIMS.... that speaks a lot....
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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 2 Mar 2016 18:35
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Quoting: MtnDon You will notice that Wholesale Solar and many others, generally recognized to be good solid vendors (solarblvd, NAWS, backwoods, thesolarbiz....) carry AIMS. I that speaks a lot....
Wonder why the reviews of those inverters are pretty bad? The ones I've read say they can't run decent loads and they break down fairly quickly.
Best at a lower price point, maybe?
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 2 Mar 2016 18:59 - Edited by: MtnDon
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Quoting: Julie2Oregon Best at a lower price point, maybe?
The way I look at components is the system is only as good as its weakest link. When the system is in my home, as compared to a recreational, part time use property, there is no "best at a lower price". There is just a lower price and no best. If a CC or inverter fails at the cabin you can always go home and stay there while you get new stuff. When there is no other home to fall back on, IMO, it pays to have name brand, recognized quality.
And even then we have fall back equipment at our recreational use cabin. Both the backup CC and the backup inverter came in very handy when lightning wiped out the hardware.
Good, better than AIMS at a lower price than magnum, Outback = Samlex. However, Magnum, Outback have better protection against airborne dust and insect infiltration. I'm not sure about magnum but Outback are modular. The three boards inside can be user replaced.
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creeky
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# Posted: 3 Mar 2016 11:18
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great plan Julie2.
I would spend my money on the best inverter I could buy. Have a look at the MasterVolts. Available from marine suppliers. Pricey but superb quality.
The Victrons are now available in the US also. They're even on amazon. search Victron multiplus. This is about the best system I've seen so far for off grid. the 12/2000 would be perfect for you (or me). 1400. pretty reasonable considering the features/know reliability.
The Morningstar ts-mppt-60 would be an excellent solar controller for you. Worldwide best seller. Few hundred cheaper than the other main stream brands.
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Mann
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# Posted: 3 Mar 2016 14:31
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I know very little about solar!!
So just asking a question, will 3- 325 watt panels keep that lithium battery charged?
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 3 Mar 2016 16:48 - Edited by: MtnDon
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The 975 watts worth of panels will be fine... depending on the actual daily energy use. A 5000 watt - hour lithium battery has about 4000 WH of usable energy. Most folks will agree that using 80% capacity is within the day to day realm of LFP.
4000 WH would be a lot of energy use in a small cabin though. I would bet that J2O won't use even half of that in a typical day, maybe only 1000 WH.
OTOH if 4000 WH were used daily then more panels would likely be in order.
We who are used to lead acid batteries also must remember that lithium batteries have lower internal resistance. They recharge more rapidly than lead acid. So when used with LFP batteries that 975 watts of PV is more like 1200 watts of panels. IIRC, LFP charges about 20% faster than lead acid. At least.
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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 3 Mar 2016 17:24
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Yeah, what MtnDon said.
I'm buying that amount of battery storage for the strings of cloudy winter days when the panels won't be producing much and I can use battery storage for days, if need be, without having to recharge them with a generator all of the time. My area does get a lot of sunshine, even in the winter, so it won't go LONG stretches without sun. I think this will be good.
Also, in the summer, this gives me the power to run a window AC unit for a couple of hours in the summer to cool down the cabin when then the area gets those several days of freakishly hot weather. Well, freakishly hot for Oregon, anyway. It's kind of life as usual for 6 months in Texas, haha.
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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 3 Mar 2016 17:31
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creeky
I will take a look, thanks! Geez, Amazon has great prices on inverters -- that's where I found the Magnum -- but you kind of have to search very specifically. Otherwise, you wind up sifting through a bunch of weird stuff that isn't appropriate for our use. So I'll search the names you mentioned.
There's a reason I chose the Magnum after looking at a bunch. Some particular attribute that I can't recall right at this moment, and it's something about all Magnum inverters, in particular. I'll remember at some point, haha.
One I know is that Magnum was mentioned in some articles I read as being very compatible with Lithium batteries. It's not the only brand but it is one of them, so that and this other thing I can't remember, plus finding this model that had other things I wanted, made it a good choice. But I'm open to others, obviously! My solar electrician also recommended Magnum.
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 3 Mar 2016 18:03 - Edited by: MtnDon
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Magnum are made in WA state a few miles from where Midnight Solar is located. Parts and service are readily available for both brands if needed. Try that with most other brands.
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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 3 Mar 2016 18:18
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MtnDon
I like supporting the solar industry in the US. We need to do that, when possible. I'm pretty stoked, actually, that my panels and pellet stove are Oregon-made. Other components are from Washington State, and some other things I've bought are from California.
Wholesale Solar is near Lake Shasta, CA which is darn close to my property. It's very Northern Cali. Even Balqon is in California. I hadn't realized that until I started poring over their website. They seem to have gotten a clue lately and their online information and photos are much-improved.
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 3 Mar 2016 18:21 - Edited by: MtnDon
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Quoting: Julie2Oregon Magnum was mentioned in some articles I read as being very compatible with Lithium batteries
The inverter itself does not care what type of battery technology the DC current is coming from, as long as the battery can safely supply the amps that the inverter demands. .
The charger section of the inverter/charger (or the stand alone charger if any) needs to be user programmable in order to tailor the maximum voltage to the battery. That is very important. I'm not familiar enough with the Magnum to know for certain about that ability.
I'd have to check the magnum specs but it may also be able to program the maximum amperage of the charge. That is also a good feature when using a generator to charge. Some high power (output) chargers can overpower a small generator. Being able to set a max amps is therefore valuable.
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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 3 Mar 2016 19:44
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MtnDon
I could be wrong but I think to program the voltage and such you need to buy the Magnum remote for the inverter charger. Otherwise, it automatically adjusts on its own.
I linked the inverter charger above. This is the remote. (It's the same situation for all of the Magnum inverters, I believe. Not just this series.) I don't mind buying the Remote. It's not terribly pricey, in the grand scheme of things:
http://www.amazon.com/Magnum-Energy-MERC50-MAGNUM-ME-RC50/dp/B004L04Z6U/ref=pd_cp_422 _1?ie=UTF8&refRID=1T2PNTAKY1T28S1GQC8H
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 3 Mar 2016 19:49
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Yes, it's the same thing with the Outback inverter/chargers; you need their Mate to program the settings.
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Mann
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# Posted: 3 Mar 2016 19:55
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Thanks!
Very helpful thread!
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NorthRick
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# Posted: 3 Mar 2016 19:59
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Quoting: Julie2Oregon I'm buying that amount of battery storage for the strings of cloudy winter days when the panels won't be producing much and I can use battery storage for days, if need be, without having to recharge them with a generator all of the time. My area does get a lot of sunshine, even in the winter, so it won't go LONG stretches without sun. I think this will be good.Also, in the summer, this gives me the power to run a window AC unit for a couple of hours in the summer to cool down the cabin when then the area gets those several days of freakishly hot weather. Well, freakishly hot for Oregon, anyway. It's kind of life as usual for 6 months in Texas, haha.
Mid 80's is freakishly hot for us. Average high in July is 65F.
Keep in mind snow removal when figuring out mounting the panels. Even a little snow can degrade the performance substantially.
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rockmtn
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# Posted: 3 Mar 2016 20:05
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Good choice on the midnite classic-- they are great charge controllers. We have a couple, they work great. I did invest in the lighting arrestors, but unless you have long runs of external wire (e.g. panels are not on your roof) or are on a mtn top, you can take your chances (we are on a Mtn top, and have 3500 feet of wire== big lightening antenna)
I would encourage you to get more solar panels, though with the midnight you could easily add another 3 panels in the future w/ out changing out any components.
I think the LiIon is a good choice; not sure about the vendor you picked though. 5 kWh is a pretty small reserve, but workable given your focus on reducing loads (and your AC will be 80% of your loads likely, so easy to shift usage down)
What fun to be moving into build stage! Good luck!
E
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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 3 Mar 2016 20:34
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Quoting: NorthRick Mid 80's is freakishly hot for us. Average high in July is 65F.Keep in mind snow removal when figuring out mounting the panels. Even a little snow can degrade the performance substantially.
It seems that southern Oregon, a couple of weeks each summer, gets into the mid-90s. The neat thing, unlike Texas, is that Oregon nights, even in the summer, cool down into the 60s in that so running a little AC for a few hours in the afternoon when it's really hot and then opening the windows at night will do the trick.
I'm going to do a pole mount for my panels so I can keep them clean and clear easily. I just found this last night and it intrigues the snot out of me. I'll need to research it:
http://www.wholesalesolar.com/6944012/zomeworks/racking/zomeworks-utr-020-universal-t racker
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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 3 Mar 2016 20:38
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Here's more on the passive, non-motorized tracking rack system for the PVs:
http://www.zomeworks.com/photovoltaic-tracking-racks/
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