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Rickkrus
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# Posted: 13 Apr 2016 19:20 - Edited by: Rickkrus
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I have 90 acres in Colorado I am going to build my cabin on. I am headed out there this week to have a well drilled and septic put in. I want to live in a travel trailer while I build the cabin and I want the well and septic to temporarily hook up to the trailer and then permanently attach it to the cabin. I am pretty clear on the septic but what exactly do I need to easily run water from a well to a trailer and then change it to the cabin?
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Littlecooner
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# Posted: 13 Apr 2016 20:15
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Is is just plumbing. Pump in the the well. plumbing to trailer and the plumbing to the cabin.
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toyota_mdt_tech
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# Posted: 13 Apr 2016 20:35
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Rickrus, keep in mind on well location, nothing can happen around that well for 100 foot radius. So the best plan is to set it right next to your boundary with a neighbor away from where you want the cabin/trailer, septic etc.
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bldginsp
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# Posted: 13 Apr 2016 22:58 - Edited by: bldginsp
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You need to plan carefully regarding freezing. Set up the system so that it can be entirely drained when you are gone for the winter.
To get water pressure to your trailer or cabin, you can either pump from the well uphill to a water tank and then use gravity feed into the trailer/cabin, or set up an electric pump system.
In areas with a lot of freezing, storage tanks are placed underground so the tank won't freeze solid.
On grid, the well pump is usually connected to a pressure tank which then supplies water to the house. The well pump comes on automatically by grid power whenever needed, tripped by a pressure switch on the pressure tank.
Off grid you need a different strategy, small pumps are made that can be powered off of batteries or a generator. Lot of different ways to approach this.
Is this the kind of info you wanted?
I think we can help you better if you tell us-
Are you on or off grid?
Elevation and frost depth?
Is the property sloped enough that you could get a storage tank up hill with 40 feet of vertical rise?
Can you dig deep in the dirt or are you on a rock shelf?
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bldginsp
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# Posted: 13 Apr 2016 23:07
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Are you in touch with the local health dept. on this? If not, the general rule of thumb is that the septic has to be 100 feet from the well, and preferably downhill from the well.
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Rickkrus
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# Posted: 14 Apr 2016 09:19
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I'll be off grid year round. Solar for electricity. 7500 ft elevation and frost depth is probably around 5 ft. I have all permits. Property is flat high desert. I thinking of using a generator to pump while I am living in the trailer. Then battery power.
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Littlecooner
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# Posted: 14 Apr 2016 10:43
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Pumping water and required power to pump is calculated on "head" or vertical lift from water to where you want it delivered. Based on what you propose, I would suggest looking at a submerged pump ( pump in bottom of well) in that type of winter freeze situation. You can only size the pump after you determine the depth of the well. Then you can make sure the generator will produce the power needed to run the pump. I would plumb all the above ground pipes where it could be drained empty when you are not on the property.
Like bldginsp stated, the general rule of thumb is to keep the well in excess of 100 feet from all parts of the septic system ( septic tank and the absorption field). There should be no problem plumbing both the future cabin and your trailer into the septic tank, just make sure you have sufficient fall in the piping, as sit your trailer up side from tank near where the cabin will be built. I think it would be easy to pump from a submerged pump straight into the camper clear water tank and then after the cabin is constructed, install the pressure tank for the well somewhere inside the cabin so it can be insulated from the outside cold. The pressure switch for the well pump goes at the pressure storage tank. I can not help with the off grid wiring on that one.
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bldginsp
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# Posted: 14 Apr 2016 13:47 - Edited by: bldginsp
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A standard pressure tank charged by a submerged well pump doesn't work in an off-grid system unless you leave the generator running all the time, or start the generator when you want to use water, or you have a large enough solar battery setup to power the pump every time it goes on.
For off grid in an area of extreme freezing probably the best thing to do is bury a storage tank, and use the generator to fill that tank as needed from the submersible pump (or jet pump if not deep). Then have a separate low-power pump inside the tank, operated by a battery setup. Shur-flo seems to be a common brand. That is set up to come on as you use water in the cabin, perhaps with a small pressure tank.
The pump that pulls water from the well will use a lot more wattage to pull water than the small pump in the tank, because it is lifting a lot higher. Unless you are lucky and your water table is 10 feet below ground. (Mine was 300...)
Or, you could pump water into a tank in the cabin, say 50 or 100 gallons, locate it up in the attic, and have gravity flow with very low pressure.
A lot of options. Avoiding freezing is a big one in your situation. The pitiless adapter needs to be well below the frost line, as are the lines from there to the cabin. Then, how do you protect the riser line that goes up into the cabin?
If your well is not very deep, you can use a jet pump which is located above ground rather than a submersible pump down in the well. Then the problem becomes keeping the jet pump and lines from freezing.
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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 14 Apr 2016 14:01
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Can you bury a big tank at a higher elevation than the trailer and have it gravity-feed via buried Pex lines to a small tank in the trailer with a Shur-flo pump attached inside to provide water/pressure for your water fixtures?
That's essentially what I thought I could do with my cabin. Would it work?
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bldginsp
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# Posted: 14 Apr 2016 14:06
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Yes I see no reason why not. The OP said he's on flat desert so that won't work for him. The small tank in the cabin could have a valve, like your toilet tank valve, that automatically fills it from the big tank if there is gravity feed.
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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 14 Apr 2016 15:34 - Edited by: Julie2Oregon
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Oh, sorry, I missed that "flat" part. I just saw Colorado and thought "elevation!" 
(Thanks for the confirmation of my situation, though.)
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Rickkrus
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# Posted: 14 Apr 2016 16:37
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This is the stuff I need to know. I can just run the generator to fill the trailer tank when needed. But when the cabin is done could I just have a switch inside the cabin to turn on the pump whenever I need to use the water and bypass a pressure tank? Or should I install a pressure tank inside? My solar is a 1500 watt system. I don't really want to heat the cabin when I am not there so a concern is the pressure tank freezing.
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bldginsp
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# Posted: 14 Apr 2016 18:26
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Turning on and off the well pump when you need water is probably not going to work. Well pumps flow at a certain rate and are not variable. The purpose of a pressure tank is to allow you to use just a little water without turning on the pump. Use more, it comes on and charges the tank again.
You will have to go through a drainage routine with all your above ground piping anyway, so including the pressure tank with that routine probably isn't much trouble. But I don't know- maybe it's harder to fill and drain one of those.
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Littlecooner
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# Posted: 14 Apr 2016 18:43
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In my part of the world, an average system ( for discussion here) will be a one horse submerged pump at a depth of 150 feet and a 30 or 42 gallon pressure tank that has a bladder in the top ( think innertube from an auto tire) The pressure switch that runs the pump is sitting in line at the pressure tank.
You need water, open a hydrant, etc, the pump has filled the tank until a pressure of 40 psi was achieved and is now, not pumping. So I pull only a glass of water, say the psi goes to 35. nothing happens with system. I fill my 1/2 gallon water bottle in prep for a hike, pressure go to 25 psi, still nothing, then you pull a glass of water or flush a toilet and when the pressure reaches 20 psi, the switch trips, turning on the pump, which will pump until the 40 psi level is reached and has nothing to do with whether you are still using water or not as it quits at the preset level of 40 psi. I could see that one could install a switch, just like a light wall switch, where you could turn on the generator, and turn on the switch and fill the camper holding tank and if you are watching, just cut the pump off, and cut off the generator. I though it would be difficult to have sufficient battery power to run one of these systems off grid. If you think about it, all that is in a camper, RV is that 12 volt pump in the drinking water holding tank that come on when you pull water. Looks simple to install in an off grid system. I would think one could plumb a pressure tank to total drain for departure in cold weather, just have it where air can come into the piping while the water is being removed at the lower elevation. Hopes this helps you understand the well pump system. Jet pumps work for shallow "heads" but do sit on top, exposed to the cold. I would want that pump down in the well, in the water, so it did not freeze.
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Rickkrus
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# Posted: 14 Apr 2016 20:55
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Most wells in the area are at 300ft or so. Does the pressure tank go in the well hole or is it placed in the house?
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 14 Apr 2016 21:05
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Submersible pump down the well casing.
At the top use a pitless adapter and run a line from there to the cabin/whatever where the pressure tank will be located.
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toyota_mdt_tech
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# Posted: 14 Apr 2016 21:29
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Quoting: Rickkrus Most wells in the area are at 300ft or so. Does the pressure tank go in the well hole or is it placed in the house?
There is a pressure tank that goes inside the well, but most in my cabin area built underground vaults using cement tiles and a manhole cover. The water comes from the well via a pitless adapter, pump is in well, rest is in vault. Protects from freezing etc and easily enough to service manhole cover is 24"
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bldginsp
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# Posted: 14 Apr 2016 23:10 - Edited by: bldginsp
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Toyota- I wonder if such a vault would work well where the frost level is 5 feet deep, as in the OP's case. Might be better for the pressure tank to be in the cabin where it will be warmed. But a vault, if deep enough, might provide freeze protection for the pressure tank year round, whereas if in the cabin it must be drained when the cabin is not heated in winter.
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NorthRick
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# Posted: 15 Apr 2016 01:01
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Put foam board insulation over the top of the buried vault and you don't have to bury it nearly as deep to keep it from freezing. Same for a buried water line.
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