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Steve_S
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# Posted: 22 Apr 2016 12:23 - Edited by: Steve_S
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Great Stuff
Attaching a Solar Orientation guide for major Canadian Cities, I'm sure there is one that covers the US Cities too.
Hope it helps those working out there solar goodies.
Canadian City Solar Orientation
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Nate R
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# Posted: 22 Apr 2016 13:18
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Quoting: LoonWhisperer We will be setting up our baby 80 watt system in the coming weeks so everyone's input here is very helpful. Question for the experts .... I will be running wires from the battery (outside) into the cabin and part of the plan is to setup a couple 12v plugs and voltage meter from a Blue Sea fuse block. Can I also run wires from the fuse block into the solar controller or should those wires go directly from the battery to the controller?
I don't see why you can't go from controller to fuse block to battery as long as the wires are short and large. I'm planning on doing the same with my baby 100 watt system.
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 22 Apr 2016 14:21
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Quoting: LoonWhisperer Can I also run wires from the fuse block into the solar controller or should those wires go directly from the battery to the controller?
A diagram would make it easier to understand how everything relates / connects to the other parts.
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LoonWhisperer
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# Posted: 22 Apr 2016 14:36
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@Nate R Thanks! Please report back so I can shamelessly steal your design 
@MtnDon Good point. I will try and scribble something so it makes more sense.
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creeky
Member
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# Posted: 23 Apr 2016 10:37
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The wires from the controller should go to the batteries and not through the fuse block.
You can and probably should put a switch before the controller coming from the panels.
rmak posted a link to his set up early on this thread. he has a real nice wiring schematic and good pics.
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Nate R
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# Posted: 23 Apr 2016 15:02 - Edited by: Nate R
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Quoting: creeky The wires from the controller should go to the batteries and not through the fuse block.
Creeky, please explain your reasoning? Wondering if I'm missing something?
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Nate R
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# Posted: 23 Apr 2016 15:06
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Quoting: LoonWhisperer @Nate R Thanks! Please report back so I can shamelessly steal your design
I'll snap a pic when mine is done. Right now, I have the battery, the Trimetric, and an Iota charger hooked up, but I won't get to the solar panels until my outhouse is built enough to function.
Priorities.
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Clipper
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# Posted: 23 Apr 2016 16:42
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I have included a pic of my little system that I installed last year for reference. I leaned heavily on several forum sites (including this one) to learn about the install, a long cold winter worth of research. I know that it can sometimes feel overwhelming with what you need to learn, but its actually not too bad.
Things I learned:
-panel +wire goes to DC breaker and then to controller
-from controller to battery + wire goes to DC breaker then to battery (or +bus bar in my case)
-for my DC circuit I used my DC outlet on my controller because it has a low voltage cut off, +wire from controller goes to DC breaker and then to Blue Sea fuse block (i know its double protection but rather be cautious and have a switch control) you can also go directly from battery to fuse block.
-iota 55A charger hooks up to + bus bar - shunt, works slick
-AC circuit pretty self explanatory
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rachelsdad
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# Posted: 30 Apr 2016 06:16 - Edited by: rachelsdad
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"Lithium 100 amp cells are available for less than 100 bucks right now. you can build a 12v system for 400. Top balance. Keep an eye on them of course. Forget the bms. That's an easy 600w daily for the next 15 years. need more power. parallel in another pack. doesn't matter when."
Creeky,
Can you explain what you mean by top balance, bms?
Where can you find them for $100?
And what should one keep an eye on?
I was just about to pull the trigger on lead batteries...this is intriguing
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creeky
Member
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# Posted: 30 Apr 2016 09:21 - Edited by: creeky
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ebay has them regularly for 100, give or take. Per cell. So you need 4 cells for 12v.
Often I've seen cells already in the US. Also shipping from China.
You balance before installing.
Top balance means that you bring all the batteries to exactly the same voltage, charged, 3.60v. You can also bottom balance, all batteries the same, discharged, 2.5v. Either seems to be acceptable practice.
Typically you use a really good programmable charger. Let the cells rest. Double check the voltage. When they line up you're good to go. You then check them annually.
One of the tricks of lithium is the cells don't balance each other as happens with lead acid. So it is possible for one cell to get ahead of the others and then overcharge.
A BMS, or Battery Management System, keeps an eye on voltages and adds or subtracts charge to keep all the cells at the same voltage. No double checking.
Most BMS also disconnect the battery if voltage gets too high or gets too low. We have similar but cruder systems for lead acid. Your inverter will cut out at 10.5 on most systems. The charger watches the charge and tapers off when it hits the defined max voltage.
So you have to watch the cell voltage for drift. That's a cell drifting above the voltage of the other cells. In small systems it shouldn't be hard to do. 4 cells. 1kw of power. Now in a Tesla with 70kw of power ... lots of cells. more trouble.
the electric car community has some okay reads (first few pages) on this topic.
(edit. there's a user there. sunki... beware he's a bit of a troll. some stuff is correct. but. the thread also degenerates into nit picking ninnies ... so)
but basically it's pretty simple.
* top balance.
* limit your charge range to keep the batteries between 20 and 80% charged
* live long and prosper.
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rachelsdad
Member
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# Posted: 30 Apr 2016 16:44 - Edited by: rachelsdad
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Thank you so much!!
Love this place...you all are great!!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-2V-60Ah-Aluminum-Lithium-LiFePO4-Long-Life-Battery-NEW-USA- Stock-/172151885834?hash=item28150d500a:g:~3YAAOSwLpdW~Dca&vxp=mtr
Is this what you mean??
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creeky
Member
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# Posted: 1 May 2016 12:51
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Yup. Or this one.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-2v-120Ah-LiFePO4-prismatic-Lithium-Li-ion-battery-for-e-bik e-golf-cart-EV-/182110863531?hash=item2a66a740ab:g:Wn0AAOSwv-NWVeBl
double the amp hours for $5 more.
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 1 May 2016 17:46 - Edited by: MtnDon
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Quoting: creeky double the amp hours for $5 more.
Those are in China. Not the same thing as being in USA already. An import like that will have duty, broker fees, plus shipping.
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creeky
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# Posted: 1 May 2016 18:32
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I saw even better pricing a month ago. 100ah for 80 ea. in the US.
even so. it would be interesting to see what the fees would add up to. your import duty, by ex., appears to be 3.4%
pretty much chump change. bet the shipping costs are a bit stiffer tho.
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 1 May 2016 20:27
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Yes, the final figure would be nice to see. That 3.4% may or may not be applicable to these. IIRC 3.4% was when classed as being used in video games. I'm not even pretending to be an import expert but there are a bazillion categories, most likely a minefield if you try to navigate it yourself.
That would be one concern. But another would be the quality of cells that have no recognizable names. They don't look like Winston, GBS... the names that we see often being packaged by resellers here. Is the capacity being advertised true? Will they have as long a life as the name brand cells?
Similar but different experience.... For the last year or so I've been dabbling in cylindrical lithium cells, using them in flashlights and portable power packs and to power assorted portable electronics. Many of those cells came from ebay sellers as well as other overseas direct sellers. Some are fakes, way below advertised capacity. In fact the majority of ebay sellers are misrepresenting their wares, IMO.
I don't mind taking a chance on a low dollar purchase that comes through regular low cost (sometimes free) shipping channels. But higher dollar, with added freight charges make me very nervous. Maybe there is someone braver than I to take a challenge / chance?
As an aside of sorts... I have noticed that every far east seller of cylindrical lithium cells that I have bought from, lies on their customs declaration. They don't call them lithium calls. Most often they call them chargers. I don't know their actual reason but I suspect it is to avoid regulations associated with lithium cells.
I believe everyone should be careful of recommending a product or a product source unless they have had good personal experiences or post a caveat. Of course every potential purchaser should also use care when considering suggestions on any forum.
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creeky
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# Posted: 2 May 2016 09:02
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some of us are born explorers.
we try new things. we take chances. we experiment. we laugh. we cry. we reap the rewards. we take the knocks unflinching.
its a good life.
what's the expression.
da^n the torpedoes. Full speed ahead. 
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rachelsdad
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# Posted: 4 May 2016 04:13
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Quoting: MtnDon Of course every potential purchaser should also use care when considering suggestions on any forum.
I dunno...you guys are cool!!
So, 3.2 volt. How many to get say an equivalent 12 volt supply...4?
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creeky
Member
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# Posted: 4 May 2016 10:19
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yup. 4x3.2 = 12.8. The fully charged value for lithium ion batteries.
Lead is fully charged at 12.7 by comparison.
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