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CraigK
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# Posted: 24 Jan 2017 18:12
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I'm hoping to buy acreage in an area where temps can get into the teens. I want to store water on the property and looking at my options. Is underground storage my only option? If so, how deep does the storage container need to be? How deep do I need to bury the lines to the house? What kind of lines work best? PVC?
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Malamute
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# Posted: 24 Jan 2017 18:56
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Find out what the average frost depth is for the site and area. The County may have the info. Your foundation footers or piers should be below that depth also to prevent frost heaving. Teens, I don't know what the depth would be. Its 6 ft here for water lines, 4 ft below grade for footers.
Depending on your budget, you could put a water tank in under the cabin. I did that with a log cabin that needed a cistern. I used a concrete tank though, not cheap. The top was a bit above grade under the cabin.
PVC is icky for water lines (my opinion, you probably meant CPVC in any event). It break easily. Pex is better, if a bit more costly. You can do it yourself with basic special tools for the bands. I bought one that was a rental at the local hardware store for quite a bit less than new. Just ask if they'll sell any of their rental tools if you don't absolutely need brand new. I also bought a coil roofing nailer from their rental lineup. I needed one, but dont use them that much. Its been perfect for my use, as has the Pex band crimper tool.
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CraigK
Member
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# Posted: 24 Jan 2017 19:09
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This construction stuff is all new to me so I really appreciate the input. I had heard of Pex, sometimes called Aquapex but didn't know much about it. Thanks again Malamute!
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Malamute
Member
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# Posted: 24 Jan 2017 19:16 - Edited by: Malamute
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Sure!
Pvc (CPVC) is ok to work with, and may work fine for what you want to do, but it does crack easy if frozen. Many like it because its simple to work with, basically cut to length, de-burr, and glue together. If its a part time place, plumb a low point drain into it, and perhaps an air valve (shrader valve) so its easy to drain out and blow the lines out with an air compressor.
I havent priced out the difference between Pex and cpvc. If its not outrageous, I think in the longer term, the Pex will be worthwhile.
Pex is cut to length, a band slipped on, the fitting has a barbed end, the pipe is slipped on, the crimper tool crimps, and done. I dislike the solid copper bands. Real pain in the behind to remove if need be. The stainless bands with the small loop sticking out that the crimper grabs and crimps are simple to remove with end cut wire cutters. Shark Bite fittings are handy to have for temporary use or repair (they are removable), theyd be expensive to use for the entire project. They work with all types of plumbing. Having a few Shark Bite caps at least could save the day if something broke. Can cap a broken line and get the rest back on line. Or replace a section of line....
Some books at the library can probably help. Some are a bit overtechnical and intimidating, some are geared toward the do it yourselfers.
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skootamattaschmidty
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# Posted: 24 Jan 2017 19:51
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I have a crawl space under my cabin that I keep my water. I have 120 gallons storage. It does not freeze in the winter and when we arrive at the cabin, I get a fire going inside and when it gets warmed up I turn on my pump. I have pex water lines that were easy to work with. Like Malamute said, if you are not needing a ton of fittings, shark bites work great. They can be removed and reused easily as well. If you have a bigger job, get the tool and fittings, way cheaper.
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Mike 870
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# Posted: 25 Jan 2017 10:05
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I buried my tank. It is about 5/6ths underground and 1/6th above grade. It gets into the teens in my area. My neighbors tank is about 2/3 underground and 1/3 above grade. He gets a thin layer of ice on top in the winter. It's good to think about this now rather than later. If you want a seasonal cabin, you can drain and winterize. If you want a 4 season, you need to make sure your tank lines and pump are in conditioned space.
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bldginsp
Member
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# Posted: 25 Jan 2017 16:15
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Pex is cross-linked polyethylene pipe. The cross-linking is some kind of chemical process that makes the pipe useable with hot water. But for cold water supply, you don't need cross-linked polyethylene because it won't get hot. Regular black polyethylene pipe is a good choice for supply to the cabin. It's what many municipal supplies use these days, in diameters up to 3 feet or more. I put in close to 2000 ft of it in 1-1/4" and 1" on my five acres. Got it from a local industrial supply.
Comes in all diameters and different wall thicknesses. Rated by pressure- 160 is the lowest I think, then they have 200 and up to 300 or 360 psi. In most cases 160 will do fine. Use barbed fittings with hose clamps to join it.
PVC has a lot of problems. First of all it's full of nasty chemicals that I prefer to avoid. As stated above its brittle and breaks easily. Also the glue is not permanent- it's rated to last 20 years or so and eventually it will fail. It doesn't melt and fuse the pvc like abs glue does on abs. Pex as well has additional chemicals that I would prefer to avoid. Straight black poly has far fewer chemicals in it- they are not needed because polyethylene by itself works well. I'm generally a fan of using no plastic but I make an exception with poly. Good stuff, safe to use, easy to work with, will last a very long time.
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CraigK
Member
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# Posted: 25 Jan 2017 17:17
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Thank you all for the great info. Much appreciated.
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Malamute
Member
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# Posted: 25 Jan 2017 19:14
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Ive used the 160 psi black poly from the well to the house, then Ive used copper on my own stuff and most places I built to sell. Pex works well and is easy to work with, and seems to be the up and coming thing. Ive used it in repairs, and changes to existing places. I use the brass fittings instead of plastic.
2000 ft is a heck of a long run! I think the longest Ive done is 720 ft. Takes a long time to bed it in soft dirt or sand before backfilling with the rocky stuff.
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bldginsp
Member
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# Posted: 25 Jan 2017 20:00
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Well, it was 6 separate runs, longest of which was 500 feet. About 700 feet of trench, and another 2000 ft of elec conduit. It certainly helped that my neighbor has a 50 horsepower trencher....
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