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mattd
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# Posted: 22 Apr 2018 13:30
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Plugged my OLD, 1995, 6200btu window unit into my 3500 surge watt construction gen. Turned the ac to high, and the generator didn’t like it. Turned the ac off. Then restarted it on low, and within say 3 seconds moved it to med then high, and the gen ran just fine......ac blowing 47 degree air, and the gen barely sounded like it had a load. Ran it on high for 15 min and it never stuttered again. Was thinking that would be long enuf for compressor to go again, but unsure.
I would have thought the compressor was either on or off. Maybe with ac set to low the compressor wouldn’t run as long as if it were on high, but the starting load it would require would have been the same with either setting.
Is that not the case? Does a low setting require less starting power?
Really this is another “will my gen run this†guestion cause I want to get a small inveror gen to save on weight and noise. If I can just start ac at low then I’ll prolly be good. Or do I need to run it for longer then 15 minutes to see what happens when the compressor starts again?
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ICC
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# Posted: 22 Apr 2018 14:44 - Edited by: ICC
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The hi-med-low switchchanges the speed of the air circulation fan. No change to the compressor. Compressor either runs or is off, but the fan usually runs all the time. There should also be a thermostat, maybe marked with just warmer/cooler or maybe with degrees. The thermostat will just set the temperaure that the A/C cycles on and off.
If it won't start with the fan set to high the genny must be marginal or the fan motor has a lroblem. The couple of window units I have start okay on a Honda EU2000' but they are only 5500 btu and are newer , more efficient.
Was the A/C unit cooling a small space? It needs to be running to cool down a space so the built in thermostat can cut off the compressor and then go through a restart when the temperature in the space climbs. Or change the temperature setting to make the compressor stop and restart. Be aware that once the compressor cycles off it has to stay off for a period of time for the internal pressure to bleed down. Many will have a built in start preventer but some a/c will try to restart and fail and keep trying and that is hard on the motor.
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ILFE
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# Posted: 22 Apr 2018 15:03 - Edited by: ILFE
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I was under the impression that, especially older air-cons had a compressor that was either on, or off. That is, unless they had some sort of soft-start option?
This isn't an air-con example. In fact, I'm not sure if it will even help you. But, it is as close as I can come, especially involving a generator.
Anyway, just over a year ago (March was a year), I purchased a Honda EU20i, 2000 watts (surge, as it is rated for 1600 watts, continuous) Inverter Generator. (This would be the equivalent of the EU2000i, sold stateside.)
Cambodia, being no stranger to fairly regular power cuts, offers me frequent opportunities to run the Honda. Sometimes, very frequent opportunities.
It just so happens that I also own a Samsung Inverter Refrigerator, two actually. I also own a horizontal refrigerator / freezer (like a chest type deep freezer, except half being a refrigerator.) The horizontal model runs a "typical" old style compressor.
My Honda EU20i can power BOTH inverter refrigerators, fans, my network and two desktops, as well as various lights and fans around the home. During power cuts, I run that little compressor on "Eco-Mode".
Of course, I am not running air-cons, electric kettles, water heaters, ovens, toasters, etc. I am only running typical lower wattage appliances that I really need to have running, during power cuts.
mattd, that little generator NEVER comes off idle.
Now, if I were to plug ONLY the horizontal refrigerator / freezer into it, the generator would bog down as soon as the compressor powered on. So much so, that we would unplug it during power cuts. I certainly do not wish to damage my generator - definitely not in this country. In fact, we ended up deciding to empty that refrigerator / freezer completely, and unplug it. (I kinda regret buying it, honestly. I should consider selling it, in fact. I just don't need such a power hog.)
Anyway, that is my experience with traditional / old style compressors, versus new inverter compressor technology. I never want to go back. In fact, the next appliance I will be buying, is going to be an inverter air-con.
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Horizontal Ref
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Horizontal Ref
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ICC
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# Posted: 22 Apr 2018 15:46
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The rest of the world has had inverter fridges for years longer than USA & Canada. They are so good, so efficient, best thing that ever happened to refrigeration off grid. No start up surge because they virtually run all the time at low speed. Low eed is more efficient. They slow way down and are virtually silent. I can't hear mine at all most of the time. They maintain the set temperature much better too.
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ILFE
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# Posted: 22 Apr 2018 16:10
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Quoting: ICC The rest of the world has had inverter fridges for years longer than USA & Canada. They are so good, so efficient, best thing that ever happened to refrigeration off grid. No start up surge because they virtually run all the time at low speed. Low eed is more efficient. They slow way down and are virtually silent. I can't hear mine at all most of the time. They maintain the set temperature much better too.
I certainly agree. I've checked mine in the past, drawing as little as 2 watts. My Honda loves both of mine.
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Atlincabin
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# Posted: 23 Apr 2018 12:56
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So, a quick search on the interweb doesn't show up any of these inverter fridges in North America. Got any links to a place to buy one?
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ILFE
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# Posted: 23 Apr 2018 14:05
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Quoting: Atlincabin So, a quick search on the interweb doesn't show up any of these inverter fridges in North America. Got any links to a place to buy one?
Atlincabin, I looked on the LG UsA site. The only thing I see them offering, is ENERGY STAR compliant refrigerators. If they were inverter refrigerators, the compressor would have a 10 years guarantee on it, I'm pretty sure. That's what they offer here, in Cambodia.
I would imagine by now, they should be available in both the US and Canada. No idea why they wouldn't be. They would sell like hotcakes.
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ICC
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# Posted: 23 Apr 2018 18:02
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I bought my LG (LFC22770ST) in late 2014. I see it has not become much easier to determine if what you are looking at today has an inverter compressor or not. At least not here in the USA. For reasons I do not understand, the marketing of refrigerators here seldom makes mention of the compressor technology, other than to be rated Energy Star, or not. When I bought mine from the specs I could read it sounded like the one I wanted was an inverter compressor. However, I had to contact LG in order to be sure. IIRC, all LG with a linear compressor are inverter compressors. But double check that before you take it to the bank. 
I do see HomeDepot has it listed still. Their write up now does state "Inverter Linear Compressor is backed by a 10-year limited warranty" way down the features list.
LG provided video
One way to know if the fridge you are looking at has an inverter compressor is to check if it is variable speed. Inverter fridges are all variable speed. Inverter compressors can be the conventional reciprocating variety or the linear type. LG did have some issues with their linear compressors a while back but mine has not missed a beat since Decemener 2014.
Friends in the UK have Haier digital inverter compressor fridge and a couple in Denmark have a Samsung from about 2012 2013 or thereabouts. That is where I first heard of them. Then a guy from India said they had them there. One observance is that fridges in the US are generally much bigger than those in other parts of the world. Like so many things.
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Atlincabin
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# Posted: 23 Apr 2018 20:09
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ICC, thanks. I've spent a couple hours looking for stuff online, and find plenty of info if one lives in places outside north america. I'm surprised they (LG and/or Home Depot) don't make the energy usage more prominent.
I really like the idea of both energy savings and noise reduction, even if it is a bit more expensive. I see HD has a smaller version (10 cu ft) which is a much better size for our cabin.
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ILFE
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# Posted: 24 Apr 2018 02:11 - Edited by: ILFE
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Great cooling ability and very easy on the power bill.
Maybe Samsung inverters are sold in the US or Canada?
(The writing on the energy label is in Thai.)
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ICC
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# Posted: 24 Apr 2018 10:33
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Quoting: ILFE Maybe Samsung inverters are sold in the US or Canada?
They do sell them here but they do not promote them. Why? I have an opinion. Extended warranty sales would drop. Apparently in the USA about 40% of fridge buyers purchase the extended 2, 3 or 5 year warranty. Stats I have seen indicate that only about 10% of fridge repairs are covered by extended warranties. And 3/4 of people who purchased extended warranties and do have repairs have spent more on the warranty than the repair would have cost them. Those warranties are a big money maker for the dealer, the insurance (warranty) company and the sales people.
How many of those extended warranties would they sell if the compressor had a 10 year manufacturer warranty?
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ILFE
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# Posted: 24 Apr 2018 17:32 - Edited by: ILFE
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ICC, here in Southeast Asia, on most everything you buy, the warranty is valid until you walk out the door. So, even offering extended warranties, in most cases, is unheard of. Definitely, a money maker for manufacturers selling in North America.
Energy efficient appliances are widely promoted here. Most likely, due to our enormous power rates. I know of rates being as high as $.50c / kWh, in some areas of Cambodia. The lowest I've seen so far, is $.195c / kWh. (Some areas will offer lower rates, like $.10c / kWh, but for only the first 10 kilowatt hours used.)
One ref, we bought for $270 USD. The other was owned for only two weeks, when we bought it for $200 USD. Identical units.
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ICC
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# Posted: 24 Apr 2018 20:41
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ILFE, sounds like good fair pricing on a fridge, even if they are smaller than what are commonplace in the US.
Quoting: ILFE Energy efficient appliances are widely promoted here.
IMO, in the US, energy efficiency gets talked about more than it is acted upon. How do we explain the popularity of F-series trucks and the like, if energy efficiency was given high priority? Or 3000+ sq ft homes for a family of 4 or 5 people? I read somewhere that homes here are, on average, 1000 sq ft bigger than in the 70's and space per person has doubled. Bigger houses and fewer people in them. Boggles the mind.
Quoting: ILFE extended warranties................. a money maker for manufacturers selling in North America.
Profit margins are 5X or more better on the insurance sale as compared to the fridge or whatever item. In a way, the extended warranty is a great thing for consumers in the US. But only if you don't buy it. The price of the fridge, or whatever, is shaved down as low as the seller can do in order to offer the mosdt attractive price. Then the sales people push the extended warranty and enough people buy that to make the overall profits higher.
In all my years of buying "things" I have never bought an extended warranty, and have never felt I made a bad decision on that. In all that time I have also had very few actual warranty repairs. One I recall was a fridge that needed a new compressor before the first year was over. The Mfg covered that at no cost to me. That fridge ended up running for 13 years before I decided I wanted a new one, the LG mentioned above.
Sometimes I wonder why I continue to live here, where I am at times very critical of the way things run? But no place is perfect and there is a lot to be liked. I have trouble with high humidity..... I've been a desert rat most of my life. The three years I spent in SE Asia came at a bad time decades ago. I have revisted several times as I married a Lao, but I find the humidity there a soul killer.
This topic sure has been hijacked hasn't it?
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ILFE
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# Posted: 25 Apr 2018 16:29 - Edited by: ILFE
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Quoting: ICC Sometimes I wonder why I continue to live here, where I am at times very critical of the way things run? But no place is perfect and there is a lot to be liked. I have trouble with high humidity..... I've been a desert rat most of my life. The three years I spent in SE Asia came at a bad time decades ago. I have revisted several times as I married a Lao, but I find the humidity there a soul killer.
It's really no surprise to see someone feel that way about their homeland. I tend to be critical of this foreign land I reside in. Oh, I conquer humidity in Cambodia, until I leave my home. 
Quoting: ICC This topic sure has been hijacked hasn't it?
No. Not really. I feel his comments & question, in bold below, have been addressed by us with the information posted. We've shown that, if he were to go with an inverter refrigerator, his genset would have no issues with it starting or running. Of course, if he also goes with an inverter genset, it will be even better.
Quoting: mattd I would have thought the compressor was either on or off. Maybe with ac set to low the compressor wouldn’t run as long as if it were on high, but the starting load it would require would have been the same with either setting. Is that not the case? Does a low setting require less starting power?Really this is another “will my gen run this†guestion cause I want to get a small inveror gen to save on weight and noise. If I can just start ac at low then I’ll prolly be good. Or do I need to run it for longer then 15 minutes to see what happens when the compressor starts again?
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Oh, ICC, my 2 Samsung refrigerators have a capacity of 210.6 Liters, or 7.44 cubic feet. So, like you stated, not very large, like refrigerators sold in America and Canada. But, they are quite suitable for our needs.
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ICC
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# Posted: 25 Apr 2018 17:21
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Back to reasons why the inverter compressor fridge seems to be promoted more highly in non- USA parts of the world. I don't recall the source but I have read that in some countries like India it is the normal thing to have the power grid switched off on a rotating neighborhood basis. So much so that many people have a small battery bank, kept cherged by the grid, along with a small DC to AC power inverter. In those places if you have an inverter compressor fridge it will keep running when the grid goes down. That saves on food spoilage. The fridge is made with the equipment for switchover built in.
They also have some top freezer models that are convertible. Make the top section a fridge or a freezer while the larger bottom is a fridge, or leave the top only on as a fridge or a freezer while the bottom is off.
Quoting: ILFE Oh, ICC, my 2 Samsung refrigerators have a capacity of 210.6 Liters, or 7.44 cubic feet.
That's about the size of a propane fueled fridge like the Servel (now Dometic) 400 models which have been one of the main go-to fridges for off grid for years. I used to have 2 of those in the older house.
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ICC
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# Posted: 25 Apr 2018 20:56
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Just came home from town. I dropped by Lowe's and walked past the fridges. I noticed an LG with the prominent 10 year linear warranty sticker. Curiosity made me look at all the display frideges. 49 units on diosplay; 2 were inverter ompressors, the LG and one Samsung. Both were big, the LG the biggest, a 28 cu ft behemoth.
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ILFE
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# Posted: 25 Apr 2018 21:26
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Quoting: ICC Curiosity made me look at all the display frideges. 49 units on diosplay; 2 were inverter ompressors, the LG and one Samsung. Both were big, the LG the biggest, a 28 cu ft behemoth.
Curious here, myself. Did you happen to notice any prices?
I'm sure the OP would be interested in what it would cost him to go with one of those.
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ICC
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# Posted: 25 Apr 2018 22:48 - Edited by: ICC
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The 28 cu ft LG I saw was priced at $2200, marked down from $2800. The 22 cu. ft. I bought can be ordered today for $1300. Mine has an ice maker but does not have through the door water or ice; cost less to run that way according to all the stats I have looked at. The 28 cu ft had water and ice through the left door. Both are french door, bottom freezer types. The 28 cu ft had 2 bottome drawers... sometimes the upper one can be used as freezer or fridge, I don't know about that one. I have seen a 34 cu ft GIANT that was close to $5K 
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ILFE
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# Posted: 25 Apr 2018 23:16
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ICC, thanks for sharing that. Truly appreciated.
Well, most off-grid folks, I think anyway, wouldn't spend that kind of change for a refrigerator. That is, for a weekend / seasonal cabin, anyway.
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ICC
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# Posted: 26 Apr 2018 00:30
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I dunno. I spent $1300 for one of the Servels about 10 years ago. So did some friends. Sold one for $500 2 years ago. But maybe I'm not average?
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Atlincabin
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# Posted: 26 Apr 2018 12:01
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I see a 10 cu ft LG on the Home Depot site that is listed for $809 and has a linear compressor. Smaller than the behemoths that are more common. I'll be keeping an eye on this for if/when my current fridge breaks down or when I get tired of listening to it kick on and off at night.
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ILFE
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# Posted: 26 Apr 2018 12:18
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Trust me, you can't go wrong with those inverter refs. I've checked mine with a watt meter a few times. It has drawn as little as 2 watts, while still running. LED interior lighting, as well.
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ICC
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# Posted: 26 Apr 2018 14:49
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Quoting: Atlincabin 10 cu ft LG on the Home Depot
That looks like a great cabin fridge especially when off grid.
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