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Cephus91
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# Posted: 10 Mar 2019 10:36
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Greetings. I am about to start a build of an off grid solar system in central GA to support a 1450 sq ft manufactured home. SolArk 48v 8K inverter, 20 6kW panels, 19.2 kWh PCC batteries. I am looking at the Generac 15KW EcoGen Model 7163 to backup and support the batteries if they get too low. Per Generac’s website, this model is designed to work in this application.
I was hoping to hear from someone who has experience with this model. I saw some bad reviews online, but this seems to be the best fit for what we are looking for. I searched the forum and did not see anything specific to this particular model. Thanks in advance.
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ICC
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# Posted: 10 Mar 2019 12:09
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Generac has had some problems over the past decade. I have a friend who has had one of the Generac's that are rated for off grid use. (Many of their models are for standby use--- backup for when the grid goes down. If used off grid Generac voids those warranties).
He got an extended warranty and all the problems have been repaired. I think they even replaced the entire engine.
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Brettny
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# Posted: 10 Mar 2019 14:56
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If you read the fine print i bet that generac says "not for primary source of power" even if you have solar thats what you will be doing with it. Kiss your warrenty good by.
Buy a cummins diesel or other good diesel brand.
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Cephus91
Member
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# Posted: 10 Mar 2019 15:16
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This is directly from the Generac website -
"Whether the off-grid lifestyle is a choice or a necessity, you are responsible for producing the energy you consume – even when there’s no sun or wind. Ensure you never have dead batteries with the Generac EcoGen–the only automatic standby generator designed and warrantied specifically for off-grid use with an alternative energy system"
http://www.generac.com/all-products/generators/home-backup-generators/ecogen/15kw-703 4-wifi-enabled
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Brettny
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# Posted: 12 Mar 2019 13:19
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Thats new by me. I would be still intrested to see what a "limited warrenty" includes.
Did you read the first few reviews?
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hamish
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# Posted: 12 Mar 2019 16:19
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What are you powering that you require a 15KW generator?
Natural gas or propane? Either way I would cringe at the cost of it running.
If you want to get serious about things get yourself a diesel genset, Cummins and MEP come to mind.
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Cephus91
Member
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# Posted: 13 Mar 2019 08:00
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15 KW is admittedly more than we need, but that is the only one they are selling that is designed to work on an off the grid system. AC will be the biggest draw in the summer. We are using propane for heat, so want to use propane for the generator as well.
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Brettny
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# Posted: 13 Mar 2019 10:56
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I dont really see how its designed for off grid. They dont really go into the specifics of what rhey changed even when someone asked that on the site.
I own a MEP at my house. I bought it and seval others a few years ago before the price went way up. I would look into something more like a yanmar or other japanese diesel now.
You may need to weigh how many days you need to run the AC and the fuel savings by having a small more fuel efficient generator for the rest of the year. Mabe even just buy a used 15k for far less.
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ICC
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# Posted: 13 Mar 2019 14:37
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Quoting: Brettny I dont really see how its designed for off grid. They dont really go into the specifics of what rhey changed even when someone asked that on the site.
It doesn't matter at all what they do. The warranty is void for those generators they rate as standby use only if you use it off grid. If they come out to service and see power grid lines, the warranty is void.
I messed up my post above.... I have a friend who has one of the off grid approved models from about 2008. He did need warranty service several times. His engine had an oil leak and I think they ended up replacing the engine power unit. The control module went wonky and was replaced. They serviced the claims okay He did buy an extended warranty I believe, but am not sure about that. Another acquaintance also had some warranty claims with the same model. His problems were repaired at no cost to him too.
Both off grid and both had an approved for off grid version.
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ICC
Member
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# Posted: 13 Mar 2019 14:48 - Edited by: ICC
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That said, it is possible to run A/C on solar. First you need to build with energy conservation in mind and air seal and insulate well. Shade the windows. You might need an air-to-air heat/energy recovery system as well. I have one to keep the air fresh inside without wasting energy. Then use split mini A/C and buy the most efficient you can get. They are also very good at supplying heat when needed. I have a Mitsubishi system that has zones so I don't have to heat or cool the spaces to the same level or leave some areas unconditioned if they are not used. All run off one compressor unit that is extremely quiet.
The main reason I run the generator is solely to keep it in shape. I use an old generator I already had. No warranty on it for many years now.
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Brettny
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# Posted: 14 Mar 2019 12:19
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Quoting: ICC doesn't matter at all what they do. The warranty is void for those generators they rate as standby use only if you use it off grid. If they come out to service and see power grid lines, the warranty is void. I messed up my post above.... I have a friend who has one of the off grid approved models from about 2008. He did need warranty service several times. His engine had an oil leak and I think they ended up replacing the engine power unit. The control module went wonky and was replaced. They serviced the claims okay He did buy an extended warranty I believe, but am not sure about that. Another acquaintance also had some warranty claims with the same model. His problems were repaired at no cost to him too
I would think being off grid you would want a more reliable generator or at least if your going to rely on the warrenty one that is portable with a close by repair center.
Most of these stand by generstors are useing air cooled lawn mower engines. There poor chinese quality. This is why i say Japanese or cummins.
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Daniel
Member
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# Posted: 7 Jun 2019 00:44 - Edited by: Daniel
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Try using one of these generators https://generatoron.org/best-diesel-generator/. They are different, you can choose for your needs. According to the reviews, we can conclude. I myself use Generac XD5000E.
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toyota_mdt_tech
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# Posted: 7 Jun 2019 08:25 - Edited by: toyota_mdt_tech
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Quoting: Brettny Most of these stand by generstors are useing air cooled lawn mower engines. There poor chinese quality. This is why i say Japanese or cummins.
Bingo. Not to mention, there is basically no parts available for them, no service counter, no service center. You might have a location that is an authorized warranty dealer, it will probably be a long ways away. After warranty, on your own, good luck getting parts, production design changes all the time and its not long before your model is no longer in production, then its really all over because they do not make parts, just sell complete units.
Still have my original Honda EU2000i I bought about 20 years ago, never missed a beat, can still get parts, but I have never bought anything for it outside of a spark plug and engine oil. I even use genuine Honda engine oil.
Many times, the more expensive unit up front ends up being cheaper over the long run.
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creeky
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# Posted: 7 Jun 2019 08:55
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From the sizing you've described on your system you will not need that generator much.
Easier might be a simple 5kwh electric start genny (honda or) and use your solarark to start and stop.
Does the solarark support load sharing between the batteries and the genny?
If the thing runs 5 times a year for a couple of hours. Do you really want to spend $$$ on an elaborate system?
How much a/c do you need? The solar will run it during the day. The batteries at night.
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Cephus91
Member
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# Posted: 7 Jun 2019 14:55
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It is admittedly over engineered. The Generac allows for remote access and controls, which is valued.
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AffordableDCGenerators
Member
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# Posted: 18 Jun 2019 18:05
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I am a Generac technician and I would avoid this model just because of its complexities and some parts availability. Crossover stuff any dealer will carry but this one is quite the special child so be aware you are getting the oddball generator. Stay away from EcoGen or anything with G-Flex which is now discontinued.
If you are using a regular home standby unit to charge batteries it will be ok if you keep on top of the maintenance. It is not like you plan on running it 24/7 which I think Generac believes people are doing for remote locations.
BUT
Warranty is void if it is used in a situation other then home standby.
Honestly at the pricepoint, probably would be just fine installing it and throwing the warranty out the window if you need an auto start LP generator. Not like you are getting a great warranty with a portable unit or if you convert it for LP.
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Cephus91
Member
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# Posted: 19 Jun 2019 08:35
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Interesting. I have not made the purchase yet. I have heard comments like that about the old Ecogen model (designed for off grid use), but have heard mostly positive things about the Model 7163 Ecogen.
We have upped our system design to 16 PCC 200 batteries and 27 310 watt panels on a system that will have minimal draw when we are not there. So in theory the generator should really not need to turn on when we are not there (and should not need to kick on much when we are there).
Another unit I am considering is the Westinghouse 7500 dual fuel (biggest one they make that can run off LP). We would lose the auto turn on feature when the batteries get low, but again, in theory should not be needed.
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zorro
Member
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# Posted: 19 Jun 2019 09:18
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That Westinghouse you can get from Lowes for around $690 plus tax (if you use an ebay voucher with 10% off)
Likely get that myself - dual fuel, remote start
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jeffnsuec
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# Posted: 26 May 2021 12:40 - Edited by: jeffnsuec
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I am in the same boat. I am putting in a 13.5K solar system with batteries and would like to tie this in to it to charge the system (Generac 7163) when there is little to no sun. What is your experience so far?
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Cephus91
Member
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# Posted: 27 May 2021 07:26
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I ended up going with the Westinghouse, and as hoped, we have very rarely needed it. The only time we ever need to turn it on is in mid summer when you want the ac cranking through the night. I run the Westinghouse an hour or so before we go to sleep to bring the charge back up, and that has worked.
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Steve_S
Member
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# Posted: 27 May 2021 08:27
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I was just looking at getting a permanent genset setup for my off-grid solar system. One that needs to be able to be activated by an Atkinson GSCM (Generator Control Start Module) triggered by my Inverter system.
REF LINK: http://atkinsonelectronics.com/gscm-mini-60hz-usa-canada/
Most Inverters within a Solar system have an AGS port (Auto Gen Start Signal) which connects to a GCSM to start/stop a genset. None come with a GCSM built-in because needs & reqwuirements vary a lot.
I went to the local Genset Dealer who sells several brands of gennies (not the small portable stuff) and they even service the local Military & Nuclear facilities, so they know their stuff. First thing they said, AVOID GENERAC ! Apparently they were bought up by an investment group a few years back and the penny pinchers murdered the brand & quality. They will not sell a Generac unless it is demanded, they will only service them (older ones) now. The fellow then took a minute to show me all the Plastic that replaced metal, brass & nylon components (boy what crud).
Luckily, since moving from Heavy Lead to LiFePO4, genset charging is MUCH better when needed in December/January. 8 hours of Genset Charging provides me with 3 days of stored power. That is using the Inverter/Charger, pushing 80A to charge while providing AC Passthrough concurrently. My system has 9 Days stored energy capacity before I "have" to start the genset IF I do not flip on my FLA Secondary Bank which is 3 days of stored energy.
One difference:
My old FLA Bank now secondary has 428AH/22kWh gross storage (1/2 useable if fresh).
My LFP Bank is now Primary & 1190AH/30kWh of which I am using 90% max cap.
BTW a WARNING on Gennies.
Beware of "Brand Labels" being used on generators. Energizer Generators for example have absolutely NOTHING to do with Energizer Battery Corp.
ALSO SEE THIS TREAD HERE get ready for it
https://www.small-cabin.com/forum/3_3861_0.html
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Brettny
Member
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# Posted: 27 May 2021 11:35
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Considering that thread start by stating they feel screwed by an "american" company selling chinese products...if you go by that standard you almost couldn't own any thing electronic. Even the Honda generators are not made in Japan.
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Steve_S
Member
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# Posted: 27 May 2021 14:07
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Exactly, Black & Decker tools, Porter Cable, DeWalt: Same Investment Company (US Registered) owns it, Same Designers in Texas, all made in China under contracts...
China will sub-contract anything a designer puts forward. It's not their job to make it better or tell them it's a poor design, they bid on the specs & requirements as put forth, good or bad. They will make it either way but Penny Pinchers squeezing profit overule everything.
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Brettny
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# Posted: 28 May 2021 05:35
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It does seam that in the past decades companies relied on there name and made things in china for cheap. Then some people realized they could get a no name brand for a hell of alot cheaper and have the same quality.
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hidrologo
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# Posted: 24 Jul 2021 07:31
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Just to put in my 2 cents. I rent out my off-grid home in NM and having a standby generator that kicks on automatically is imperative in my case. I bought a 6KW Ecogen in 2013 and it is at the end its life and I will be replacing it with the 15 kW model. My 6KW model had a number of problems over its lifetime, a muffler that went bad, an electronic panel that had to be replaced, leaking oil lines, and a belt that had to be replaced. That being said, I had one tenant who was an energy hog and put lots of hours on the gen. In general, I have been happy with the performance of the generator and Generac's response over the 3 year warrantee. My main complaint in the area where I live, is with the dealer service. The two principal ones are greedy and incompetent and Generac requires authorized dealer service under warranty. One of the dealers sends out two reps on calls and charges double the google estimate for travel time. Another one incorrectly tightened the belt pulley after replacing the belt which made the engine run poorly, then claimed that the generator had another problem. Fortunately, the solar guy that takes care of my system was able to fix the belt problem and became my service guy. My recommendation would be to not buy a standalone unless you can service it or you are in a situation like I am where you must have 24/7 power. Apart from my standalone I have a portable that can be manually started in case the standalone is down waiting for parts. This has happened a few times as well
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