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afurm
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# Posted: 1 Jun 2020 08:55
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We are off grid seasonal summer use only. Electrical. Cottage on rock. Current situation: bring drinking water in from home. Bucket water from lake, heat it for dishes. Want to install a sink and pull up water from lake instead of using buckets.
I want the easiest, lowest maintenance system. Did some research and watched some video's but a lot were not explaining the entire process.
I'm guessing we'll need a 110 v hardwired in for the pump. Don't think I'd need a 220 as we use compost toilet outside and water usage is minimal.
I know a lot of people put their pump outside, but thinking of keeping pump under sink in cottage and running hose line down rock into lake. I believe the best situation for us is to remove at end of season, remove/clean filter and cap the hose over winter.
Any suggestions on best situation for us? Also any suggestions on the best unit to purchase?
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Nobadays
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# Posted: 1 Jun 2020 10:04
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There is a recent thread that might help... HERE
I think more information is needed to give specific help. Like.... how far from the lake? How many feet above the lake are you?(a pump will only lift about 25' but will push a lot higher) Could you run electricity to a small pump house near the lake?
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Just
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# Posted: 1 Jun 2020 10:07
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The pump needs to be less than 20 ft above the lake for a simple system .you will need a small pressure tank best to buy all in one unit pump and tank together .From there you will need a foot velve and line to the lake hooked to the pump and a line from the tank to the tap .That's it for plumbing... 110 volt to the pump. 1/2 hp pump should do it...
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afurm
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# Posted: 1 Jun 2020 12:11
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Thanks for the info. Where we are thinking of dropping the line I would say it is about 25-30 feet distance with a 15 foot rise up rock to push water up to cottage.
Nobadays...you're saying instead of putting the pump in the cottage, build a little pump house closer to waters edge to put the pump in so it doesn't have to work as hard?
I'm inferring that it is more work for pump to draw the water up, than once it gets it to the pump to push it up to the tap???.
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afurm
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# Posted: 1 Jun 2020 13:27
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So if I understand this correctly...
I would have the line going from water to the small pump house near water. Line exiting pump house up to tap. I definitely can run electrical to pump house without a problem.
1. So the foot valve goes in at the end of the line that is in the water to prevent backflow correct?
2. I'm also assuming the small pressure tank goes directly under the sink to hold water to be readily available.
I really appreciate this. My husband is making me do all the research and learn this all on my own so I know how this all works, which is good but I feel clueless at times.
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rpe
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# Posted: 1 Jun 2020 13:38
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We are about 15 ft above lake level, and use a setup like this:
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Superior-Pump-Jet-0-5-HP-Cast-Iron-Shallow-Well-Jet-Pump/100 0997364
That rig sits under the cottage, and a pressure line runs off to water heater, and various cold water fixtures in kitchen and bath.
The poly line runs down to the lake, suspended off the bottom by a float. The end of the line in the lake has the aforementioned foot valve to prevent backflow. It's been a trouble-free system for us.
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Nobadays
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# Posted: 1 Jun 2020 13:47 - Edited by: Nobadays
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Quoting: afurm I would have the line going from water to the small pump house near water. Line exiting pump house up to tap. I definitely can run electrical to pump house without a problem.
Yes... to the above.
Just.... laid it it well. Yes, easier to push water than draw water. A centrifugal pump has a MAX lift of about 25' vertical.... 15' that you have should be fine.
Quoting: afurm 2. I'm also assuming the small pressure tank goes directly under the sink to hold water to be readily available.
As ... Just.... suggests an all in one unit would work best, something like THIS. So the pump and pressure tank would be in your small pump house. Of course if you are in an area that freezes, you will need to drain the pump/tank and probably pull the intake line in the fall.
Hope this helps!
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afurm
Member
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# Posted: 1 Jun 2020 15:11
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One last question...for now...
So I've now learned this that we discuss is a jet pump system yes?
I know there are submersible systems as well. Would those be more for permanent or all season use and/or better than the jet pump system? Or would the jet pump system work sufficiently for our needs?
Our place is in northern Ontario so definitely freezes and it would need to be drained and stored. I imagine that is not a difficult process.
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afurm
Member
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# Posted: 1 Jun 2020 15:25
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I see these run jet pumps run at either 115 or 120 v so can those be run off a 110 circuit for the electrical?
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Just
Member
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# Posted: 1 Jun 2020 15:56
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Yes 110 circuit , to winterize remove the pipe in and the pipe out and let drain then remove three plugs in the pump ((put them in a safe place)) don’t loose them ,.. If you put the pump and tank in the cabin there is less chance of freezing in the spring and fall, however it makes it harder to prime the pump at startup. I once sold a cabin in northern Ontario to a fellow . I gave him the keys to the place and the plugs for the pump.. The following spring I get a call asking were the plugs were . He left them home 300 Km away!!
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afurm
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# Posted: 1 Jun 2020 16:55
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Quoting: Just If you put the pump and tank in the cabin there is less chance of freezing in the spring and fall, however it makes it harder to prime the pump at startup
So just to clarify and make sure I understand...if I leave pump/tank in the cabin over winter and take out in spring it will be difficult to prime? Does this mean it would be suggested to bring the unit home with me when I close? Cabin is not insulated, no heat, so the temp outside equals the temp inside.
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Just
Member
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# Posted: 1 Jun 2020 17:27
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No no need to bring home just drain when its cold .
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Nobadays
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# Posted: 1 Jun 2020 17:47
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The pump can be left wherever you install it. Just drain it before winter.
The comment about putting the pump in the cabin.... I believe was directed towards...IF... you choose to install the pump in/under the cabin you will be further from the water source, and possibly higher than the 15 feet you mentioned. Higher and farther to draw water from the source makes for difficulties when trying to get the pump primed, i.e. pumping water. The closer you are to the source, both in height and distance the easier it will be to get the pump primed and pumping.
Hope that helps.
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Irrigation Guy
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# Posted: 1 Jun 2020 18:35 - Edited by: Irrigation Guy
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I would use a submersible pump in an flow inducer sleeve. That way you don’t have to worry about priming and elevation is not a concern.
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qbodsyt
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# Posted: 2 Jun 2020 12:14
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Quoting: Irrigation Guy I would use a submersible pump in an flow inducer sleeve. That way you don’t have to worry about priming and elevation is not a concern.
Our family cottage in northern Ontario has been using a system like this for nearly 20 years now, we used to use a jacuzzi pump in a pump house halfway between the lake and the cottage but it was a monster to prime and get going every spring, especially in black fly season
We bought the submersible pump and put it inside a milk crate and dropped it in the lake about 10 to 15 feet from shore.....we leave it in the lake every winter and it starts up like nothing every spring...it feeds a 20 gallon holding tank we have under our verandah and the pressure is never an issue.
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Brettny
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# Posted: 2 Jun 2020 13:15
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At 15' head you could use a 12v pump. A 1/2hp jet pump is major overkill for a little cottage. I use a jet pump with 1in line to pump upto a 275gal tank on a hill. 300ft of line and roughly 40ft of head it fills in 28min. And yes its a pain to prime in the spring.
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afurm
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# Posted: 3 Jun 2020 09:01
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Quoting: Irrigation Guy I would use a submersible pump in an flow inducer sleeve
So this being all completely new to me, how is the install with a submersible pump? I finally got the idea set with a jet pump but have been reading that priming is a pain.
What is the main difference between the two systems??
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Brettny
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# Posted: 3 Jun 2020 10:33
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Sump pump the actual pump is under water and requires no priming. Jet pump uses a suction line thus needing to be primed. I believe jet pumps are quite a bit cheaper, about $100. Sump pumps for a well start at about $300
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afurm
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# Posted: 3 Jun 2020 14:10
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I feel the best for us is the Jet Pump, however I've heard priming is a pain. Anyone with experience with these have any suggestions on getting started each year to avoid priming issues?
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afurm
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# Posted: 3 Jun 2020 14:12
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Quoting: rpe It's been a trouble-free system for us.
How has priming each season been for you? Any suggestions for smooth seasonal set up? I heard priming can be a pain.
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Just
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# Posted: 3 Jun 2020 15:22 - Edited by: Just
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Things to ease start up ,make sure all clamps are tight , use 2clamps per connection, all fittings are sealed with Teflon tape , no leaks in old pipe , lowest lift to lake , buy best pump you can afford, Gould or Myers are good 400 or 500 $ Cn., Canadian tire and Tsc pumps all work put can be more problematic. I have lots of pumps at our cabin we have a small Home Hardware pump 250$ but only 2ft. Of lift to the lake took 2mi to prime last week .Do not run a jet pump dry if it gets hot it’s done for good!!!
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Just
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# Posted: 3 Jun 2020 15:37
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Do not run a jet pump dry it will get hot and require service.
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Irrigation Guy
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# Posted: 3 Jun 2020 19:59 - Edited by: Irrigation Guy
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High quality jet pump or submersible will be pretty close to the same price. You can buy crap on amazon or at Home Depot.
You want to keep your pump elevated off the bottom of the lake some how and it’s good practice to install a flow inducer sleeve around the pump to force water across the motor. You will run poly pipe and wire from lake to your cabin and install pressure tank and pressure switch to control the pump. I would install a drain somewhere on your line maybe at the water line in your poly pipe. Poly can handle some freezing without cracking but good idea to get as much water out as you can for winter. Picture shows flow inducer
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rpe
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# Posted: 9 Jun 2020 20:50
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Quoting: afurm How has priming each season been for you? Any suggestions for smooth seasonal set up? I heard priming can be a pain.
'Just' covered the details above. We had trouble priming one time, but that was due to a poor quality connection between the poly line and the pump inlet. It ended up sucking air there, rather than pulling water up from the lake. The end of the poly was a bit chewed up so we cut off a few inches, re-filled with water, re-clamped, and we were good to go.
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RiverCabin
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# Posted: 16 Jun 2020 12:34
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Quoting: afurm We are off grid seasonal summer use only. Electrical. Cottage on rock. Current situation: bring drinking water in from home. Bucket water from lake, heat it for dishes. Want to install a sink and pull up water from lake instead of using buckets. I want the easiest, lowest maintenance system. Did some research and watched some video's but a lot were not explaining the entire process.
I'd recommend catching water.
Like you, my cabin is on water (a river to be precise). I also bring in my drinking water. I built a tower, set in concrete, with a caged IBC tote on it. Water is collected of of one half of the roof. It is plumbed into the toilet and bathroom sink. As long as I start collecting water in the spring, I've never run out of water. As of this weekend, it is completely full.
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