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RichInTheUSA
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# Posted: 18 Aug 2015 07:15
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Hi, We've had our property in the Shenandoah mountains of Virginia for about a year and half now, and we've seen a few black bear, and maybe seen a mountain lion (see video link below).
Anyhow, my wife is wanting to put a stop to any camping on the property, especially teens who are friends of the family (who would be unarmed) while camping.
I'm thinking that any group of 3 or more people would be just fine camping if they keep food put away and take proper precautions for bears - which I think is keeping food in a cooler in the car (??).
I'm also thinking that a mountain lion is going to run from any human, but my wife is worried about an straight on attack!!
What are your thoughts? Is this something to be worried about?
Is my 45lb dog at risk running around the woods too?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SX9jtqyxEk8
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ChuckDynasty
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# Posted: 18 Aug 2015 07:27
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Hard to tell but animal in the link looks canine to me. Thought I saw big upright ears and a long snout.
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Pookie129
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# Posted: 18 Aug 2015 07:47
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Salty Craig also lives in the surrounding area - he might be a good voice of reason (I cannot believe that I wrote that in the same sentence talking about SC..lol).
I agree with you, and anyone taking reasonable precautions should be fine.
Anytime you are in the wild, woods, wilderness, there is a chance for animal encounters = preparation and common sense will take care of most of the issues.
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RichInTheUSA
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# Posted: 18 Aug 2015 07:58
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Chuck... I agree the video is inconclusive. Several of my neighbors had seen a mountain lion in person, but didn't have a camera at the time. This is likely it, but we can't tell due to the speed of the animal and the background colors in each frame.
Anyhow, the idea of if is preventing my wife from wanting any campers... so taking precautions makes sense.
I just don't know what the appropriate cautions are for a (possible) mountain lion. It is good to know it was running away from my property. haha.
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FishHog
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# Posted: 18 Aug 2015 08:55
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that tail makes me think Mountain Lion.
I agree, reasonable precautions should be sufficient, but stuff happens, so nobody can say 100%.
There is a risk to everything we do in life, probably much safer camping in the woods than being on the highway driving to the woods.
Everyone has to decide what their personal risk tolerance is.
FishHog
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Pookie129
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# Posted: 18 Aug 2015 09:16
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After looking at the video, it looks like a cat to me - I am going to "assume" mountain lion.
If you look at the tail and the arching, it doesn't appear to be canine to me but my eyes are aging, but the body, movements and tail look or seem cat like.
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FishSeeker
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# Posted: 18 Aug 2015 11:14
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It's definitely mountain lion and like others said just take ordinary precautions. I have black bear in my area but they really want nothing to do with the cabins or people in the area. But we don't leave any food or garbage outside at night.
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old greybeard
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# Posted: 18 Aug 2015 11:46
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Doubt they have mountain lions in VA, maybe a escaped pet. Millions of game cams out there. There would be plenty of confirmed pictures.
Bears will break into a car for food or trash. Both my neighbors had their trucks broken into. I had my shed broken into just because I had a old closed bottle of deer scent inside. Bear proof cooler or hang the food high. Dogs are a issue, they can be stupid around bears and get in over their heads.
We have tons of bear at our camp. They can be intimidating when they lose their fear due to feeding. But we don't worry about them.
2 legged predators, and the danger of driving to camp are a much bigger threat.
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Littlecooner
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# Posted: 18 Aug 2015 11:51
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Looks like a mountain lion to me. Its a definite for me. Life is full of danger, and chances. Bears like food and the normal precautions in camp is to keep the food away from the tents, etc. Web is full of correct information for camping in bear country. Deviate from the standard and yep, bunch of teenagers will have problems with bears in camp. Mountain lion is a different creature. Very rare attacks of humans in the US of A on the records. Once spent 5 weeks camping in the Rocky Mountains in one spot, we had a mountain lion come by almost every night ( we had snow cover for 24-26 days) within just a few feet of camp. I would not expect an attack from a lion, but then, its in the wild and stuff happens, just like in the big city. Let them camp, just make sure everyone involved understands camping in bear country procedures and if deviated, its just a matter of time until a bear is in camp.
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hattie
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# Posted: 18 Aug 2015 12:08 - Edited by: hattie
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Don't put food in your vehicle. Bears will tear it apart to get to it. Hang the food in a cache strung between two trees. Bears also love anything plastic - they are fascinated by it. Avoid putting anything you value in plastic containers that bears can access.
Here's one video of a car after a bear got it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGKJbJyMKBE
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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 18 Aug 2015 13:36
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Just me, maybe, but I wouldn't allow teens to camp by themselves. Years of teaching high school juniors and seniors showed me that even the most level-headed teens will do reckless things when they're on their own. They just don't have the life experience and maturity to believe that slacking off at something important even once can have tragic and lifelong consequences.
IMO, trusting that teens would always stow trash and food safely out of reach of wild animals and away from their campsite would be misplaced. One slipup could invite something hungry, and powerful to their site, they'd freak, the animal could react. Or they might see an animal and one of them might venture too close out of curiosity, making the animal feel threatened and choose to attack. Just like that bear did in an attack on some campers which was on the news several days ago.
Responsible adults want to camp, OK. Teens, uh-uh. Just my opinion.
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PA_Bound
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# Posted: 18 Aug 2015 14:55
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While I can appreciate your wife's concern, IMHO a strong reaction is not necessary here. Assuming that is a mountain lion (and I agree, it looks like one to me), I think the best response is simply situational awareness and preparation.
A couple things to think about. Your video is (so far) a one-time event. Mt. lions can range across a large territory, sometime hundreds of miles square. So until you start seeing multiple pictures or regular sign, the lions visit to your land could just be a fluke. Also, while mt. lions certainly could be a threat, I am not aware of a mt. lion attack here in the east in maybe the last 100 years. While I agree someone will be the first eventually, the odds of it happening on your land are very small compared to the many other outdoor risks. And finally, mt. lions are very secretive. With other plentiful and easier to obtain food sources available (for example, farm animals and deer), I believe attacking a human is unlikely unless the human does something to corner or provoke it first.
But dilgence, in every outdoor environment, is prudent. Some noise is good, secure your food sources and, especially in the evening, keep dogs close.
And as for teens camping, I think that depends on the teens. I was 9 when I camped out in the mountains, with no adults, for the first time (two 9's and an 8 year old, in fact). At 17 my best friend and I would go back-packing for a week at a time. In all of those times, while I can say I've heard some pretty scary animal noises, I was never actually threatened by an animal. Probably the biggest threat has been the weather on several occasions, followed second by animals of the two-legged variety. They, in fact, scare me more than any wildlife in North America.
My $.02
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bldginsp
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# Posted: 18 Aug 2015 16:11
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In California we have a very large and active mountain lion population, and every summer tens of thousands of people camp where they are. On average over the last 100 years there has been one lion attack on people per year or so in the whole state. It's usually in a circumstance where the people are walking and the lion stalks them. They don't attack tents. In general they are just not interested in people, much more interested in deer, goats, calves, and the occasional small dog. I wouldn't worry about lions.
But bears are different because they are going for anything that smells like food. In Kings Canyon National Park I saw a picture of a car window frame ripped open- and all that was in there was a candy wrapper. Hanging food high is the typical solution- there are also bear capsules you can put the food into and the bear can do nothing with it but swat it around, can't open it. But teenagers will keep the cookies in their tent, defeating the purpose.
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NorthRick
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# Posted: 18 Aug 2015 16:16
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Boy, we camped all over Virginia and West Virginia as teens. All of us are still alive and have no bear or lion scars. Stumbling into a hornets nest was usually the worst wildlife interaction. That, and occasional locals that weren't keen on "city boys" in their backyard.
Can't say we were ever all that careful about food. Raccoons seemed to be the biggest thread to our food supply when camping.
Get them a couple of cans of bear spray and let them camp out. It will do them good.
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morock
Member
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# Posted: 18 Aug 2015 18:46
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Sorry looks more like a fox to me.
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Smawgunner
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# Posted: 18 Aug 2015 21:43
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I vote cat. The tail is not bushy enough for a fox. I'd be cautious and prepared when camping.
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RichInTheUSA
Member
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# Posted: 19 Aug 2015 06:06
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Thank you all for the information and opinions.... all very good and helpful!
Thank's Hattie and others for the guidance of not putting food in a vehicle and hanging it high instead. I'll do more research on that.
On the (unconfirmed) mountain lion sighting... I'll keep my cameras out and see what we get. Greybeard... good call on the possibility of it being a released exotic pet. The VDGIF said that could be a possibility too.
Anyhow, thanks again to everyone who responded.
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old greybeard
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# Posted: 19 Aug 2015 12:18
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Yeah, people on the east coast desperately want to believe catamounts are coming back. Here in PA there are thousands of game camera's, not one confirmed wild siting. Yet people post enlarged cat videos and pictures, or bobcats, and think they are mountain lions. All de bunked.
I'd rather not have them around, I've read too many stories of hunters out west, especially bowhunters, being stalked as prey. And they do hunt and kill people out west. Our big black bears in PA haven't killed anyone yet.
Please encourage the teenagers to camp, I'd be thankful they want to leave the internet to do so. I can remember camping out over nite on river islands by myself when I was 16. Safer than the streets.
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silverwaterlady
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# Posted: 19 Aug 2015 13:22
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Right you are Old Greybeard,if teenagers are exposed to nature at a young age and taught outdoor survival techniques there is no reason why they should not spend time in the great outdoors.
If they as well as adults have not than there is no better time than the present to learn.
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LoonWhisperer
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# Posted: 20 Aug 2015 12:57 - Edited by: LoonWhisperer
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Tough one... if it wasn't for the tail I would lean more towards fox/coyote. Regardless, best to take some common sense precautions as other's have mentioned.
Admittedly I was getting very lax about our own situation then this little fellow showed up at the front door lol
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creeky
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# Posted: 20 Aug 2015 13:15
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Did I ever tell you the story ...
I was camping in NB and something came up to my tent, snuffle snuffle snuffle.
the first snuffle woke me up. the second snuffle pushed the tent wall in and bumped against my back. the third snuffle was insistent about sniffing me out.
of course, I'm 7/8s asleep and something is poking me in the back. I reach over and SWAT.
I hear "hufffff."
I fall back asleep.
Wasn't till the next morning I realized whoze nose I had swatted. See above. Increase size.
I've camped in many, many places with critters that could eat me. I've always figured the chances of getting eaten, attacked, wounded, bothered, even seeing something that will eat, attack wound are so far less than; getting hit by lightening, which is so much less than; getting in a traffic accident, which is so much less than; having a heart attack. I never worry.
Now. The time I was on this island in Greece and we got into the town too late to find a room and had to camp in the hills with wild dogs howling and snapping around us ... that was scary.
snuck onto a guys sailboat (no one aboard) and camped there for the night. whew.
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groingo
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# Posted: 22 Aug 2015 02:12 - Edited by: groingo
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I have a resident female black bear I have known and encountered for the past five years, I just call her Fat As-, because every time we see each other she runs and that's all I see.
First time we met I was working in the stream lifting a log when I looked up and there she was not 15 feet away sitting watching me on the opposite bank, I saw her, thought about my options and dropped the log into the water, the splash spooked her, I yelled and she ran up the very trail I came down on and I took another route back constantly stopping, listening and smelling.
From that point on I carry a bear bang and a compressed air horn whenever going to the creek.....I have seen her two times since over the years but can always smell her before I see her and always make plenty of noise when in the woods so neither is surprised.
I do have Cougar and Yotes (Coyotes) but they only show up at night or early morning a couple times a year.
Just keeping alert as to what is going on around you with sight sound and smell when rummaging in their territory is a must, nature don't hand out second chances.
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paqcrewmama
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# Posted: 24 Aug 2015 10:21
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If you are truly concerned, consider a simple, noise-making "alarm" around the camping area. That said, food definitely NOT in car (bears will tear apart). I'm not sure on the video, honestly. I see longer snout with coloration that could be a coyote, too. Believe me when I say that I think mtn. lions are more around then we're led to believe. Here in CT people have seen them and we were poo poo'd by DEEP until a male lion was killed on a highway. "It's not a resident population, just a young male from out west." Yeah, well it was STILL a mtn. lion in CT!
Anyways, I'd be leery to let my teen males camp along period. They don't always think and respect the risks. BUT I guess you have to judge your own teens, you know them best. I wouldn't let them NOT go simply because of bear or lions but definitely teach them about how to be safe if you let them go.
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