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Platz
Member
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# Posted: 4 Aug 2013 13:26
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Hello,
Been looking at northern ontario property, specifically, unincorporated municipalities which means:
Territories without municipal organization (ie.where there is no local government in place), are commonly referred to as "unorganized territories."
Building permits are not issued in unorganized townships, as there is no municipal authority to do so. There are, however, unorganized townships that are subject to Minister's Zoning Orders or Zoning by-laws and therefore, "Letters of Conformity" or "Zoning Conformity Permits" would be required in these townships, prior to any development or construction taking place. Citizens owning properties in unincorporated areas should call the Ministry of Municipal Affairs and Housing, Municipal Services Office, in their area for more information. The Ministry of Natural Resources may also need to be consulted with respect to permits required, as would the Ministry of Transportation if development is proposed on or near a highway. Septic system approvals would need to be obtained from the local health unit or conservation authority.
The Building Code Act, 1992 is applicable to all lands, whether in municipalities or in unincorporated areas. This applies to all buildings, whether or not a permit has been issued or applied for, and also where a person is exempt from the requirement to obtain a permit (i.e. for the construction of buildings other than sewage system, in unorganized territory).
Been reading the policy report for one of interest. It shows a designation of "General Use Area" but under the "Land and Resource Management Activities" section, it states:
Crown Land Disposition, Cottaging = Maybe. Crown land may be provided for cottaging in the future.
Crown Land Disposition, Rural Residential = No
This area is currently being extracted of it's natural resources. Luckily, the property gives surface, mineral and tree rights to the owner. Since this area is still very wild, the land use planning board hasn't designated this area for cottages let alone rural use (long-term residence) which is what the common man's intention would be.
Here's a link on information regarding land use planning, the boards and how it all works
URL
What the hell does all this mean for the potential homesteader?
It means that when you buy this property, you MIGHT be allowed to build a cottage without a building permit (since it's in unincorporated area), the building must be up to code and a proper sewer system in place.
It also means you can't build an unrecognized or unauthorized type of building such as earth-bag and you can't live there permanently. Of course you'll build a sewer waste system properly since you will simply be poisoning yourself if you don't but that's not this posts focus.
My question to you, fellow members...What would you do?
a) Play within the set laws of people you've never met and never use the property in it's full glory
b) Fight the good fight and change the set law(s)...may take awhile if at all
c) Keep quiet, mind your own business, make friends with neighbours (if any), respect and live in harmony with nature, pay the Provincial Land Tax and any taxes (URL) until the members of the "Land Use Policy Board" realize your vision and update the policy putting little-old-hidden you back into legality
Thanks in advance
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Rossman
Member
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# Posted: 4 Aug 2013 22:30
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I think it depends how remote you are. If you are in the absolute middle of nowhere, I say just do whatever, as long as you aren't permanently ruining things for the next person (ie. poisoning the land, or otherwise mucking stuff up)
If you are closer to civilization I would stick with (a)...
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soundandfurycabin
Member
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# Posted: 5 Aug 2013 00:30
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I think that the "Crown Land Disposition" section is likely referring to the govt plans for converting what is now crown land into private land for cottaging or residential development. But your property of interest is already private, so that section doesn't affect it directly. In fact, it may be very good if you are allowed to build but the surrounding area is off-limits for development now and in the future.
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Platz
Member
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# Posted: 5 Aug 2013 00:35
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"absolute middle of nowhere" might define this location. It's in an area where loggers are stripping out the trees but with only logger roads. Like sprinkling pepper, the area will slowly becoming privately owned, it just might take a few decades or more.
40kms as the bird flies to the nearest town and without established roads makes me think it's remote enough to warrent no trouble making investigators for a defined period of time anyway.
Of course when the worst happens, what do you do then?
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Platz
Member
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# Posted: 5 Aug 2013 00:44
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soundandfurycabin....I think the realtor should be able to answer the question about the use of the land. If the new owner is allowed to build , they would still have to build within building code since that is a blanket law for ontario.
At least that one good news would prevent paranoia about being seen living in the area, just have to prevent others from seeing what the homestead is constructed out of 
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Platz
Member
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# Posted: 5 Aug 2013 00:45 - Edited by: Platz
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oops...double entry.
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Platz
Member
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# Posted: 5 Aug 2013 13:31
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Crown Land Planning in Ontario (found here URL)
Within the Ontario Government, the Ministry of Natural Resources has the lead role for the care and management of Ontario's Crown land and water, which covers about 87 per cent of the province.
The Ministry of Natural Resources carries out Crown land use planning under the authority of the Public Lands Act. Crown land use planning:
assigns Crown land to primary designations (e.g., protected areas (Provincial Parks; Conservation Reserves); Enhanced Management Areas and General Use Areas); and
develops a list of permitted uses for specific areas (e.g., recreational activities such as hiking, ATV use; commercial activities such as commercial fur harvesting, power generation).
According to the "Guide to Crown Land Use Planning (2011)" (URL):
Section 8.6 states, The following standard statement must be included on any new land use plan maps, and in the text of any land use plans that may be prepared: Crown land use designations apply only to Ontario Crown lands, and other lands managed by MNR. Where a designation appears to overlap private land, Federal land, or Indian Reserves, these lands are not covered by the designation.
When Crown land is sold or transferred, there is normally no need to revise the boundaries in CLUPA (Crown Land Use Policy Atlas), because the land use policies no longer apply to the area.
This information is align with what soundandfurycabin suggested but we all needed to read it from the horses' mouth...unless I've interpreted the information incorrectly. I'd hate to contribute to "hearsay".
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standup4eachother
Member
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# Posted: 3 Mar 2014 17:14
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If I had land in an unorganized township in northern Ontario . Say between 50-150 acres. Can I build a house ???? And live in it all year?? Or a cabin and live in it all year??? And crown land doesn't belong to the pulbic. Are they giving us money from the minerals??? NO.
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Platz
Member
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# Posted: 18 Apr 2014 17:29
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Hi standup4eachother.
In an unorganized township in Ontario, you are required to follow the Ontario Building Code which covers structures and sewer. When it comes to involving land-use planning (building permits, zoning) fall under the control of the planning board covering that geographic jurisdiction. There are 16 in Ontario which can be found here URL.
In unincorporated townships, there may not be a road allowance at all which means you will need to apply for land use planning changes and probably a whole bunch of other stuff.
It's extremely important to make sure you can build and live on the property all year (year-round) if that's what you want from the property. Some property parcels are accessed via a seasonal road which means the municipality has identified the road as "unassumed". This means they don't maintain it and it's not up to their road standards. This also means they will not allow you to build a permanent year-round residence until you improve the road at your cost. It seems to me this how a corporation (the municipality) has claimed ownership over land where parcel can be sold and built on but without the corporation investing their own money into the infrastructure.
In this situation, build a seasonal-residence, don't live there 365 days out of the year, and don't expect a plowed road or 911 service coming down the road to get you in the winter. This may seems bad but for some people or their intended use, this provides a remote property with lower property tax in very close proximity to municipality maintained road infrastructure. This can be great as hunting grounds even in the winter.
standup4eachother.....you are correct that crown land doesn't technically belong to the public, however, as a citizen, you are allowed access to crown land for recreational purposes where permitted. No permanent structures, polluting, destruction, etc. You must relocate to a new site every 21 days (~100ft away or something like that....read up on the details yourself to make sure you're not violating laws).
Of course, the property that you payed for and continue paying for (taxes), isn't legally yours. It still belongs to the crown, you just payed to take over legal responsibility for the property for a period of time from the Crown. This ensures that the Crown never losses it's assets and in fact, continues to make profit during transfers, permits, market value increases, and uneducated mishaps by the owner. Ultimately, it's under Crown Rule and jurisdiction.
If you don't believe me, what happens when you don't pay taxes? You're fined and the parcel sold off at auction
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