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creeky
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# Posted: 26 Nov 2014 12:26
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Every fall I get this urge. The urge to build, to play with wood and fibre, to create. This year I thought I would build a bedroom for my camp.
For the past two years I've been collecting material for a portable bedroom. A bedroom on wheels. I gathered wood. Insulation. Wheels attached to a trailer.
But, after seeing a friends 10x12 tiny house/cabin, I realized ... whoa, no way will that fit on the trailer I found ... so I built this instead.
Based on the "perfect wall" it's my 10x14 winter chalet.
here's the plan ... and on Sept 19. Day one of the build
 [/url]
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NhLiving
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# Posted: 26 Nov 2014 18:54
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Looks like it will be quite the cozy bedroom. How far along are you if you started on sept. 19th? Nice math skills too!
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neb
Member
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# Posted: 26 Nov 2014 18:55
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Well it looks like you got a start. Now are you going to have this cabin on wheels or will it be a stationary building? Keep us posted on your build.
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Wilbour
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# Posted: 27 Nov 2014 07:15
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My little cabin is 10 x 16. With a folding table and chairs and rolling kitchen cart the space can be very versatile. Creating a sleeping loft frees up a lot of space. All in all, you will be amazed how comfortable you will be.
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creeky
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# Posted: 27 Nov 2014 08:50
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I have given up on the wheels for now. I'll get back to thinking about it this winter. Any ideas appreciated. NHliving. I hope you didn't check any of the math ...
And, will I finish before winter sets in??? Stay tuned.
Okay. So for the next while after getting the frame started I entertain friends and family. Go fishing. Hunt ducks. But times a'passin' and it's time to swing hammers.
oh, and this was one of my favorite moments of the build. I notched the beams with my circular saw, many cuts, knocked out the kerfs (fancy language) with the hammer, and then chiseled the notches clean by hand. The curling pine, the smell of resin being released.
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Steve_S
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# Posted: 27 Nov 2014 09:31
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Ahhh nothing like the smell of fresh cut pine or cedar in the morning eh ! Ever since I can remember growing up on the farm, there is something magical in the smell of fresh cut wood.
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creeky
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# Posted: 28 Nov 2014 09:18
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I finally had to stop accepting invitations to play and get down to work. So after some humming and hawing I went to see the Amish lads at Black Lake.
Wow. Is that lumber ever a reasonable price. So instead of roofing and siding with plywood I use four plywood panels on two corners of the building for bracing and I finish the roof and the rest of the walls with 1 by 12" boards of fresh cut pine.
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creeky
Member
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# Posted: 29 Nov 2014 10:19
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So I'm happily going along with the build...
and starting the insulation progression
This shows the layers of the "perfect wall" ala creeky. You see the wood interior. Then the "control layer" or house wrap. And then the insulation. the final layer will be strapping and I think a combo of metal and cedar siding.
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creeky
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# Posted: 30 Nov 2014 11:03 - Edited by: creeky
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When ouch ... now the thing about recycled materials ... my 3" insulation turned out to be 3.3". Times 2. Plus 3/4" strapping. Those 8" screws aren't biting into the wood ... and seeing as the strapping not only holds the insulation down, it secures the metal roof ... What to do, what to do?
After a nights rests ... it's the dado doo dah day rescue plan
A few dados later ... inset the strapping, screws bite into wood. problem solved. now ain't that purty.
 http://creektreat.ca/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/b4-insulation04.jpgDado do dah day done" title="http://creektreat.ca/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/b4-insulation04.jpgDado do dah day done" />
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Wilbour
Member
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# Posted: 30 Nov 2014 11:09
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You had me wincing when you had the word "ouch" and a photo of a saw blade. ...
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creeky
Member
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# Posted: 1 Dec 2014 14:34
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So far Wilbour I have all my fingers. My dad on the other hand... his right hand. Let's just say he doesn't give anyone the middle finger.
So. Got the roof wrapped with ice and water stuff. No pics.
Installed the door. The door, in keeping with the recycled theme. Is from a garage sale two years ago. End of day. $50 bucks with a nice print of birds thrown in for good measure (happy birthday Mom, yes I am that cheap).
Door came with flashing still attached. Which, with a little custom metal bending, I was able to use. Whoever put the door in did a great job. Amazing really. They hung the door from two screws at the top corners and then spray foamed. Pretty cool. So when I put the door in, I did the same. Two screws. One in each top corner and then spray foam. I had to put some foam wedges in on the lock side to take a bow out of the frame, but it's in.
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Steve_S
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# Posted: 1 Dec 2014 18:02
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Heya Creeky, 
I'm wondering on how you will be roofing that "Chalet" ? Tin with 2xX sleepers or ?? Just wondering as it's an unvented Cathedral roof.
The progress is good, maybe you'll be in it before the heavy fluffy rains are upon you. Pretty doubtful it will ever get on wheels now eh 
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Wilbour
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# Posted: 1 Dec 2014 20:18
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Quoting: creeky My dad on the other hand... his right hand. Let's just say he doesn't give anyone the middle finger
You are a funny person. My grandfather lost fingers index and middle. We gave him a pair of gloves and he gave everyone the peace sign all winter.
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creeky
Member
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# Posted: 2 Dec 2014 08:53
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Peace out Wilbour. That's funny. I don't think I'll be buying my dad any gloves...
Steve I've just ordered the tin. There will be a window for ventilation/illumination on the clearstory side. It's sitting in the workshop waiting for warmer weather to install.
Been trying to decide whether I put electricity in or not. If I do I'll put in a fan with a humidity switch. The green wood is pumping out moisture like crazy. I towel off the windows twice a day. In the morning I can wring water out of the towel. High tech dehumidifier...
With the pine resin smell and the humidity. It's real nice in there.
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creeky
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# Posted: 2 Dec 2014 08:56
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Winter came to early.
It's a mean, nasty, ugly cold. A wet cold with winds up to 100 km an hour. Luckily the roof is wrapped. But real progress grinds to a h-h-h-h-a-l-l-t.
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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 3 Dec 2014 02:47
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Wow, and you were rolling right along there! Good job!
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creeky
Member
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# Posted: 3 Dec 2014 10:30 - Edited by: creeky
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Thanks Julie. It's been a bit of work. and tough on these old man bones. 'specially once the cold hit.
luckily I can work inside now.
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creeky
Member
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# Posted: 3 Dec 2014 10:39
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Heating costs for the chalet
Let's look at some numbers: Outside temp, -5C and windy. Interior temp: 12 to 22. Amount of heat added (unvented propane heater): 2 hrs at low (4k btu x 2 = 8k btu). Cost: $0.25. No solar gain.
Even before I finished the exterior insulation I was sleeping inside. I'll spare you the photo of my air bed and sleeping bag. You can go to my blog if you must see the humble set up.
I did not use the heater at night. Max. temperature change was 10 degrees C over 14 hrs. or .8 degrees/hr. First night. -6. windy.
Lowest temp change without heat was day two (mild, 0C/32F outside, 19 to 14 interior inside over 15 hrs). Overall temp change was .3 degrees per hour with no supplemental heat. This includes all heat loss with entry and exits (door opening).
At this point there are still two sections that only have 1 layer of insulation. And there is a 3"x2" gap above the door that is uninsulated. So I'm pretty happy with the results.
Score one for the "perfect wall." thanks building science dot com.
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creeky
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# Posted: 4 Dec 2014 09:36 - Edited by: creeky
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Well. Snowed heavily. Supposed to get less than an inch. Got 6". I'm not complaining. You see the snow Buffalo got?
Anyway. Fairly cold. 6" of snow. Genny won't start. Time to get to work. Started with the shovel. It is hilarious to throw snow off of 14' long 1x12" planed pine boards at -5C. I laughed and laughed.
Then I got the spark plug puller out of the shed and had a look at the spark plug on my genny. Yikes. I'm amazed it was running. After a clean and polish the genny starts on the second pull.
Took the circular saw, the speed square, the measuring tape and started trimming down the boards. Floor went in fast and easy. Lucky. Dragged my mattress outta the tent. Luck x 2. The sun heated up the tent and the mattress was pretty warm. Set it up (without bed frame which will come later). All ready for a decent nights sleep in the chalet.
Long story shorter
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creeky
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# Posted: 4 Dec 2014 09:59 - Edited by: creeky
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Steve_S. To answer your questions...
The tin gets attached to 1x4 strapping. Pretty standard for sheds and barns around here. I'm using kiln dried as I found an inexpensive source and it won't move as much as fresh cut.
And there is a cathedral like ceiling. But this is a "perfect wall" build. So the exposed wood framing and walls will remain exposed. The control layer goes over the sheathing/pine boards. The plywood is for racking control and the pine sheathing is for aesthetic reasons ... I wanted a real cabin look to the chalet. Heck it's a chalet / hay rack.
The nice thing about the perfect wall is you don't need to cover up your walls. You can. Just no vapour barrier, that's already on the outside of the building.
So as for ventilation. There is no unconditioned space/attic. You have conditioned space. The room. You have a control layer (vapour/water proofing/insulation/roofing. And then you have unconditioned space. The great outdoors.
For those who haven't seen this ... perfect wall article by the famous Joseph Lstiburek. These guys rock. Take particular note of his comments on "figure 9."
URL
hope that answers your questions. Oh. his footnotes are pretty funny too.
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Steve_S
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# Posted: 4 Dec 2014 10:38
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LOL @ footnotes... indeed !
I guess I'm doing that Perfect Wall without calling it that. 2x6 Advanced Framing 24oc walls with 5" foam board between studs, OSB sheathing, Tyvek, 1" foam, strapping & cladding. Interior finish not yet determined and subject to change.
I'm actually headed back to the "Big City" (much ughness there) to get 40 pieces of 4" R-20 Roofmate foam in a couple of hours which I am using in my floor & a couple of other spots. @ $10 ea, can't bark at that...
Because of the slowdown / break I'm revisiting the roof design and pondering Gambrel roof again but sticking with Tin. Cathedral Roof (Gambrel / Gable / Shed styles) need to be sealed but vented under the tin and there is a couple of ways to accomplish that which I have to consider... luckily no rush now.
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creeky
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# Posted: 4 Dec 2014 13:02 - Edited by: creeky
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I used 4" roofmate on my shizzer shack (wash house) floor when I went from 3 seasons to four. worked the treat. for this build it's 2" xps and 3" iso. just the way the deals went.
The perfect wall doesn't put insulation between the studs ... If you're planning on using foam really look at the exterior application. It's way easier to install than between studs and of course, no thermal bridging off the studs. No vapour mgt. issues. I've done both now. You know my preference ... smile.
Ottawa fasteners has the screws for putting up the foam board with strapping. 'Spensive ... but.
I use vented closures under the tin. keeps the bugs out. lets the air flow. great place in the US. 1/2 price $5/pack. He sells to the Amish. The amish are good to know. My pine 1x12s are .20 a foot. You know. cheaper than OSB and a dang sight purttier.
btw. I don't know if you saw. But there's a guy on kijiji who has not bad solar panels (Heliene) at 250 watts. 8 of 'em. 2kw for 1000 bucks. Used. But dat's a good start on a solar system.
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Wilbour
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# Posted: 4 Dec 2014 14:22 - Edited by: Wilbour
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Hey Creeky, you must be close by. I drive by Ottawa Fastners all the time. Was just thinking of seeing what they had.
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Steve_S
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# Posted: 4 Dec 2014 19:43
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I have alerts on Kjiji for Ottawa/Gatineau & Renfrew/Pembroke areas and with Ottawa being 130kms from me now, it's gotta be outstanding for me to go there... I got my 40 sheets today, so that should take care of my floor warming...
There is a mix of "Perfect Wall" one with no insulation within the framing and the other with it. I have the 5" for the walls already but hoping to score 1 or 1.5" for the exterior thermal break. Roof will have 8" of HD Foam in it so it appears now...
Haven't decided on exterior cladding at this time and likely won't till spring but I'm leaning towards Board & Batten but live edge board may also be an option... Getting my Tin from a very nice Amish fellow who's got terrific deals that one just can't pass up. You got one heck of a deal @ .20 a board foot for pine - would love to score a deal like that myself... Folks around here want a bit more... on the order of .50 a board foot for Eastern White Cedar. But I have 2 fellas I know that run their own mills so who knows, when the time arrives there are possibilities.
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creeky
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# Posted: 5 Dec 2014 10:10
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hey Wilbour, you're in for a treat. I've spent an hour or two at OF. real good prices. stuff you just can't find. and the guys there are good too. I don't get by too often. it's an hour north of where I am.
Steve_S. Ya. I think the "residential" perfect wall with interior insulation uses roxul or batt insulation inside. foam is a good vapour barrier so you're trying to keep from creating a vapour barrier outside and a vapour barrier inside trapping moisture to freeze/rot between. from what I know (insert whistling sound).
my math might have been a little rusty on .20/bd foot. I think it's more in the range of .30. I'd better get a price list and double check... .50 for eastern white cedar is amazing. a buck is what I pay.
I need a couple hundred board feet for next year so I might be asking you for some suppliers. I'm going to finish the exterior of the shizzer shack and the chalet with tin and cedar. might get fancy with some japanese shou sugi ban treatments.
i've seen s-s-b finishes that look great but I just saw a guys wall and it looked terrible. he really scraped it down and the finish mottled. the idea is you don't have to paint for 80 years, not it looks like *(&P for 80 years... so I'ze got some testink to doo.
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creeky
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# Posted: 5 Dec 2014 10:31
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So the walls are up. The floor is in. The windows are set temporarily, until next spring, as I didn't have time to make my dudley boxes. so that's waiting for warmer weather. The exterior insulation is finished. a little bit of flooring to do. Lots of taping and strapping and roofing. eh.
I have to say though, being inside at night is just really nice. The pine is drying so the room is warm and humid ... I get a kick to think I'm breathing water drawn up by the roots of a pine tree harvested from a rocky New York hillside just a few weeks ago. You can smell the forest. lol.
And the room stays very comfortably between 17 and 19 without problem. A toast to the direct vent furnace.
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Wilbour
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# Posted: 5 Dec 2014 13:26
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Creeky, let me know if you need anything (check my profile). I drive to Kingston via Smiths Falls most weekends during the summer. I can however take the 416 to the 401 if that's closer. Fastener Supply is 15 mins from my place.
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Steve_S
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# Posted: 5 Dec 2014 15:32
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Geez, seems like a few of us are in the same neighbourhood... Maybe we should all get together in Kaladar @ the Burger Joint on the corner ;)
@creeky, yep, humidity management is essential / critical to ensure the envelope itself can breath property. Funny you mention S-S-B Get outta my head man ! There is barely enough room in there for me and my exhausted filling clerk... !!
One option would be to use a layer of Black Joe on the exterior sides of the studs which would allow breathing ... Maybe with the Fibreboard Plant being reopened in Pembroke, some goodness may come from there this spring.
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skootamattaschmidty
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# Posted: 5 Dec 2014 17:30
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Haha the burger joint in Kaladar. That's funny. I'm 20 minutes north of that place up highway 41. It sure does a good business!
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Steve_S
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# Posted: 5 Dec 2014 19:30
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It certainly does and they make a Mean Burger too ! Last time I was there, the poor guy was asking if I knew anyone who'd take his used cooking oil as his previous Bio-Diesel guy stopped for an unknown reason.... I'm sure he's found someone to take it by now. Yep... you follow Hwy 41 for quite sometime, turn down a side road, then a dirt road and up & over a few hills and your at my place... Love the area & folks around here !
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