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cotxwx
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# Posted: 31 Oct 2016 16:49
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Hello! New member here from Northern Colorado.
I'm hoping I may be able to leverage the expertise here on this forum and see if I'm way out in left field with our goals. I'll try to provide as much detail as I can.
We're eyeing properties in south-central Wyoming, or north-central Colorado. Something in the 8000' to 10,000' elevation range. We have some identified, but won't be able to do anything until the spring / thaw. The cabin will be used for weekend getaways / bug-out property.
These properties are remote...old mining claims, lots with 4WD / ATV access, and other things that somewhat prohibit access by large machinery.
I'm looking to build out a 24'x24' or smaller cabin. Soil condition is unknown, but I'm thinking it'll be thin over the rock.
Is there any foundation option that does't require blasting rock or earth movement? My intention is for this to be a 'DIY' job, but understand my limitations. Foundation is the one major concern I have.
If I'm trying to build a 30 / 50 year cabin (stick built), what are my options for a foundation? Can I just put up a foundation on concrete deck blocks and let it shift with the seasons (freeze / thaw)? Are there any technological advances that will allow a foundation that isn't dug several feet in to the ground?
Thanks!
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Just
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# Posted: 31 Oct 2016 17:34
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16x16 is considered the limit for deck blocks ,many here will say less.
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cotxwx
Member
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# Posted: 31 Oct 2016 17:55
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Is it feasible to work around that limitation by "modular-izing" the cabin like what I have in the attached picture? One 16x16 for living / kitchen, and another as a bunk house?
There are 4 of us (Me, my wife, and two daughters). We'd like for it to be comfortable for the 4 of us, as well as if we want to have friends / family over.
I'm open to other suggestions for a foundation...I just assumed the deck blocks would be the easiest, but if there are other ideas, feel free to share.
Thanks!
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Salty Craig
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# Posted: 31 Oct 2016 18:32
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cotxwx
If the soil isn't deep to the rock, can you dig to rock and stack up from there with blocks?
I personally don't feel that there's a size limit to what can be on blocks. Don't skimp on piers. There's old building such as train stations, etc. on piers that are huge.
If the rock is bed rock, I don't foresee frost issues.
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 31 Oct 2016 18:39 - Edited by: MtnDon
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We love CO and have spent much time there spread over 40 years of travel. It is a beautiful place, coveted by many. I believe every county in Colorado enforces building permits and following the building code that the state has adopted.
With the varied terrain and weather in CO there cab also be large variations in what is required per location. The snow load in particular can vary immensely just over a ridge. As for foundations, if the location is covered by the IRC deck blocks are not permitted at all. One main reason is that such blocks offer no uplift resistance. They also do not offer any lateral resistance.
Use Google to search for "building codes permits for XYZ, CO" where XYZ is the name of a county or town. I chose Walden, CO (Jackson county) to use for an example. Here's their posted info That document states that the code applies to unincorporated areas as well. As well there will be zoning rules that may set minimum square footage requirements.
IMO, it is best to start with researching the zoning, permit and code enforcement before spending any money.
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cotxwx
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# Posted: 31 Oct 2016 18:48
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Too funny...Jackson County was one of the areas we were looking, along with Albany County in WY (which, according to a local realtor, doesn't have the same restrictions in unincorporated areas...I have yet to verify this).
The more and more I research this, the more I'm thinking an old RV might be a better option. haha!
Surely there have got to be companies that specialize in remote builds like this. I'm thinking I may be better off paying someone to build the foundation & floor. Then I can come in and finish the framing, roofing, interior, etc.
Thanks!
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Rickkrus
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# Posted: 31 Oct 2016 19:04
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There are several counties in Colorado where building permits are not needed or only septic needs inspection. Delta, Saguache are two. I see cabins on deck blocks or cinder blocks all the time in
Saguache County.
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bldginsp
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# Posted: 31 Oct 2016 23:20
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I agree with Salty that building directly on solid rock is the best way to go. Drill into the rock and epoxy in rebar, use embedded hardware to hold the structure to the concrete.
There was one poster here who built a beautiful log cabin in a remote area of CO (if such exists anymore) without permits and then he got busted by the local building dept. Be careful.
I doubt you will find companies that specialize in remote construction because they can't easily commute home at night. You need to make it attractive to them- promise a nice big tent with comfy cots, several coolers full of food and brewskis, a hot shower, and your willingness to get the necessary materials on site, and you may find an experienced builder and his pal willing to camp in the boonies for a week.
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cotxwx
Member
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# Posted: 1 Nov 2016 16:05
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Any thoughts on a 8.5'x20' flatbed trailer, and building the cabin on that? I've seen something similar on those tiny home shows and it seemed like a neat idea. I hadn't given it much thought for this, but I just remembered this "foundation" choice.
Thanks everyone for all the great info!
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Malamute
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# Posted: 1 Nov 2016 16:17 - Edited by: Malamute
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I don't foresee a foundation being a huge ordeal. You should be able to hand dig holes deep enough for concrete piers and footers (sonotubes with bigfoot footers). Ive hand dug fencepost holes 4' deep for power poles, with two people in rocky ground it took from 1 1/2 to 3 hours per hole. We alternated the digging bar and cleaning out the loosened junk with shovel, or small bucket and folding army shovel once down a ways. Once the basic hole is in, opening it enough for sonotubes and footers shouldn't be too bad. If you can get concrete delivered to your site, that's a nice way to get it done, but you can buy a concrete mixer and do it yourself, then sell the mixer.
Don't let the foundation psych you out, its not that huge a task, so long as you can get a little time to do it. A friend or two hired for a couple weekends may be enough to get it all done.
If you run into bedrock, or huge rocks, Id just drill and pin your sonotubes to them. Ive done it before when hand digging and running into rocks too large to get out by hand. A (real) hammer drill will drill into rock like swiss cheese.
You can also open the hole a bit sideways and push the rock to the side out of the way.
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bldginsp
Member
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# Posted: 1 Nov 2016 18:14
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All you would gain with such a trailer is a strong subfloor frame, which is not very hard to build itself out of wood once the piers are in place. Perhaps if it's free, but if they want cash for it, that cash could go toward the lumber.
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sparky30_06
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# Posted: 2 Nov 2016 06:59
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a trailer to build on is a waste in my mind. I built a small cabin on deck blocks this year and they work ok for my area. but in an area that will have freeze and thaws I would dig down and at a minimum set a concrete cookie then set a 6" x 6" post ontop of that, then build from there.
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NT5224
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# Posted: 8 Nov 2016 13:31
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G'day cotxwx
Your issue is exactly what my wife and I face everytime we build anything. We're basically on bedrock with an inch or two of soil cover at best...and like you we are too remote to bring in heavy equipment or excavators or even additional labour...
The main building in our camp is about the same size as your planned cabin. It sits on sixteen footings dug to between 1-3 ft deep. My father in law who is a structural engineer told us "if you can't go down you go out" to accommodate the necessary volume of concrete. We also hand dug dug additional foundations for a workshed and a vehicle shed and a large kitchen extension to the main cabin.
We live in a a cyclone area so are very mindful of construction, although frost is absolutely not an issue for us....
Don't ask me how much time these fittings took to dig, literally months...possibly a year...over a period of several years. We both worked and it was pretty hard going, plenty of blood sweat and tears... I do recall we used a a small electric rock chisel on some of the holes to help crack through the strata although much of the work was done with pick axe, crow bar, cold chisel and hammer.
I'm not sure I'd recommend that approach to anybody else starting out, and probably wouldn't be inclined to repeat the experience.
We considered various piers and above ground footings such as deck blocks but in the end decided to take the plunge for a permanently established camp.. But I think we did the right thing
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Malamute
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# Posted: 12 Nov 2016 12:10 - Edited by: Malamute
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Quoting: NT5224 I do recall we used a a small electric rock chisel on some of the holes to help crack through the strata although much of the work was done with pick axe, crow bar, cold chisel and hammer.
Ive used all those tools, a digging bar saves unimaginable amounts of brutal work. Not that using a digging bar is any treat, but makes a very hard job a bit simpler and easier. The one I have was home made by a friend, its a piece of oil well sucker rod, solid alloy steel of some tough grade I imagine, maybe 1" diameter, about 6' long, and the female threaded boss left on one end for a tamper. Warren heated the cut off end and flattened it to a chisel point. Its just raised and dropped, though in many cases you need to add horsepower to the trusts, but it often works pretty well without hammering (hand thrust) it really hard into the ground. They are heavy, and take a lot out of you to run them. With two people it makes it easier, one runs the bar and breaks up 4-6" of compacted gravel and rock, then takes a break, the other person cleans it out, then continue. Wicked rocks take some concerted effort, but can be broken loose with some careful digging bar work. A pickaxe is only useful in pretty limited places compared to a digging bar. Its hard to imagine how holes could be dug in really rocky ground without a digging bar.
Commercially available digging bars are around, but Id look for one that's long enough and heavy enough to be useful on deep holes. The size of mine has been excellent. The 4'ones wouldn't go very far I don't think.
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neckless
Member
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# Posted: 16 Nov 2016 05:11
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there is nothing wrong with a surface foundation ..16 inch pony wall on treated ties sheathed with plywood...i cant seam to post a pic of my 16x20 bunkie....15 years and no cracks in drywall...it gets -40 here
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