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drb777
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# Posted: 31 Aug 2023 14:44
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'Been waiting for internet at the cabin for 14 months with Starlink and finally came up for activation. But lately I've seen where TMobil offers 5G internet supposedly available in my location. My question is; would 5G really be reliable & reasonable when cellular is marginal (at least 5 miles from closest tower)?
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ICC
Member
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# Posted: 31 Aug 2023 18:49
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Does T Mobile offer a trial period? I'd try that before ponying up the money Starlink demands
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drb777
Member
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# Posted: 31 Aug 2023 21:32
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Unfortunately, Starlink allows only 1 week to activate & pay, or I lose my place in line.
But I do believe T Mobil offers a 30 day trial and w/o a huge equipment cost. Too bad Starlink has such strict rules (and costs so much).
It just doesn't seem reasonable to expect decent signal strength when regular 4G cellular shows only 1 or 2 (of 5) bars. But I have zero experience with 5G internet/data.
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Cedar Fever
Member
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# Posted: 31 Aug 2023 22:09
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How often can you suspend your Starlink service? Can you tie. It on and off when you need it?
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ICC
Member
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# Posted: 31 Aug 2023 23:03
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I am not a cellular guru, but I would not think that 5G could be better than the 4G with the tower at least 5 miles away. Although if the tower is higher than your location with nothing in between to deflect a signal, the usable distances can be phenomenal.
I am lucky to have a Verizon tower on a high ridge quite close by and get very good 5G here.
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razmichael
Member
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# Posted: 1 Sep 2023 08:42 - Edited by: razmichael
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simple terms - 5G has a much shorter wavelength and carries more data than 4G but it does have a shorter range. I don't know details on the TMobile offering but any gateway device they provide should fall back to LTE 4G if 5G is too weak anyway so you might not be able to take advantage of 5G rates but should still get coverage. A lot depends on just how much bandwidth you need. I need to use an amplifier at our cabin that gets us about 2-3 bars LTE if close to the internal antenna. We certainly could not have 3 or 4 people streaming but it works fine for basic stuff, some streaming and even zoom business meetings (note that this is a booster not a gateway device with wifi coverage although I will use the phone as a hot spot for other wifi devices when needed).
Although slightly more complexity, it is likely that the supplied gateway includes an external antenna port such as
Gateway Example which would enable you to add an external directional antenna mounted high on a pole/cabin/tree that would likely improve your signal a lot (obviously dependant on terrain). Naturally some one time cost for this but no added monthly costs!
All speculation without knowing details but it would seem to be something to closely investigate before shelling out for much more costly StarLink. You need to find someone with a TMobile account and ask them over for a beer or two.
On the flip side, depending on budget and actual bandwidth needs, StarLink may be easiest solution.
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Nate R
Member
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# Posted: 1 Sep 2023 10:48 - Edited by: Nate R
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Yeah, IIRC Will1e here on the forum has the Tmobile 5G, and been very happy with it.
I'd be in a hurry to get a tmobile unit ASAP and try it out during the grace period if I were you...substantially cheaper than Starlink.
Also, T-mobile now offers 4G for $50/mo, but with a 100GB cap in some areas.
I've got 10/0.75 DSL coming soon to my cabin....didn't want to take out the trees required for Starlink.
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drb777
Member
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# Posted: 1 Sep 2023 13:58
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Thanks to ICC, razmichael and Nate R, I do appreciate your collective advice.
I ordered T Mobil 5G today, they said I'll have it by next Thursday. At $50/month (total), no contract and zero equipment cost, it's worth a try. They said I have a 15 day no-cost trial, if it doesn't work, just return it. I asked about an external antenna port, they said it has only 2 ethernet ports, but not a specific port for antenna.
I'll just let Starlink be a possible future option. With an equipment cost of $750 & $120/mo service, that's a pretty big commitment when much more affordable services might be just fine for the cabin.
I built my cabin on a ridge top for cell & TV reception, maybe that will also help for 5G data service. We'll soon see & I'll report the results.
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Atlincabin
Member
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# Posted: 2 Sep 2023 00:21
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I thought Starlink also had a 30-day free return policy if you are not satisfied. Might cost you the delivery fee, though. Of course, you also have to set up the Starlink to try it, but I recently helped a friend do this and the connection part is dead simple. Planting the antenna took much more time, but that will depend on your circumstances (whether you need to cut trees etc.). If you have a fairly clear view of the sky, it appears to be pretty simple to set up the antenna. (most of the satellites should be overhead rather than on the horizon)
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Nate R
Member
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# Posted: 5 Sep 2023 08:46
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Yes, please let us know how it works out with the T-Mobile!
Atlin, Starlink's app allows you to "scan" the skyline with your phone and will tell you if you have too much blockage for starlink to work....easy way to find out if your spot will work without much effort/hassle/waiting.
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drb777
Member
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# Posted: 5 Sep 2023 20:15
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The T Mobil sales rep got a couple of things wrong, but it's all good. 'Received the gateway today, 2 days early. And it's the new model TMO-G4AR by Arcadyan,
with the 4 external antenna connections.
I'll be back to the cabin on Friday and we'll see about signal reception. But now at least I can easily add a 4X4 external antenna if needed.
BTW, Starlink doesn't have an app that works with my rather basic LG 10 phone. Fortunately, T Mobil's app is compatible.
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razmichael
Member
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# Posted: 6 Sep 2023 07:45
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that's the model i linked to above from their site. Good news as it gives you the option, if needed or wanted, to add the antenna - still cheaper than Starlink i suspect
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drb777
Member
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# Posted: 9 Sep 2023 11:06
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Apparently your choice of cellular networks can really make a difference, especially in rural/fringe areas. 'Setup the new T Mobil 5G gateway in the cabin loft yesterday and it seems to be working very well. With relative signal strength of 3 bars and rated as "good". (I've never had AT&T indicate as well on my phone.) The T Mobil app shows connections to the 5GHz & 2.4GHz bands. Numerous speed tests were not consistent, but streaming and connectivity were never noticeably affected. I plan to add a 4X4 external antenna to improve upload speeds, and to satisfy my OCD (I upload very little).
BTW, I did a cell tower search and found one 3 miles away. It didn't show-up as T Mobil owned but may very well have leased space at that location. Their coverage map indicated my ridgeline cabin spot as "5G extended". And I've been told that AT&T uses only their towers in my specific area.
Bottom line, I'll pass on Starlink and their high monthly cost. 'Can't be justified with "good" 5G service at a much lower cost. BTW, to get the $50/month price, T Mobil requires auto-pay with a debit card or ACH, no credit cards. And I'll also be looking at switching cell phone service away from AT&T.
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ICC
Member
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# Posted: 9 Sep 2023 12:48
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Good news!
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drb777
Member
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# Posted: 9 Sep 2023 14:33
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razmichael is this about what you'd recommend when no actual line-of sight is available? https://www.waveform.com/products/4x4-mimo-panel-kit?view=v2
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drb777
Member
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# Posted: 9 Sep 2023 16:07
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Anyone with an interest in this new T Mobil 5G gateway would benefit watching this video posted today; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMw-c3GA2tE Excellent explanation from an expert.
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razmichael
Member
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# Posted: 11 Sep 2023 08:27
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That was a good video explaining the various trade-offs and potential configuration changes. Because the external antenna's are 4x4 MIMO they are fairly expensive and I'm not sure I'm really in a position to compare. There can be two advantages to external antennas - you can put them in the optima location; height with no walls blocking the signals, and depending on the design (omni, directional) you can get better gain. the other key is good quality cables as every foot of cable has a loss.
If it was me I'd play with it the way it is as you seem to have a decent signal. Find the best placement and see if it will do the job. Download/upload speeds are useful specs but packet loss, ping rate, jitter can have a much bigger impact on actual usability - and usability depends so much on what you really need to do with it at the cabin! maybe by then the guy in the video will have his next one out dealing with the external antennas!
No idea what T-Mobile offers regarding roaming but make sure that unknown tower who are using is not being seen as roaming - unless T-Mobile doesn't care.
Could be wrong but "The T Mobil app shows connections to the 5GHz & 2.4GHz bands" likely refers to the internal wifi being used not the cellular. For small spaces I tend to turn one off (5G having the best performance but shorter range).
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drb777
Member
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# Posted: 12 Sep 2023 09:45
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'Now have a pretty good answer about the application of a MIMO 4X4 antenna for this new gateway. URL
(mine is on order) Being much more rural than Nater's one mile from the tower, I expect to see a large improvement from my current avg of 42 down & 3 up. I'll soon find out for sure.
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drb777
Member
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# Posted: 18 Sep 2023 17:37
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'Installed the Waveform 4X4 MIMO antenna to the T Mobil 5G gateway today. Speeds increased quite a bit, I'm now up to an average of 200 down and 9 up. I think this approaches typical Star Link performance, so I'm quite happy with this setup (actually better than my AT&T home service).
Waveform 4X4 MIMO antenna
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drb777
Member
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# Posted: 18 Sep 2023 17:42
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Another photo.
Waveform 4X4 MIMO antenna
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razmichael
Member
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# Posted: 19 Sep 2023 08:06
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I'd say 200 down and 9 up is damn good! I assume ping rate, SNR etc are all good as well. Nice solution.
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