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gcrank1
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# Posted: 28 Sep 2023 15:58 - Edited by: gcrank1
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Most know we have a prev owner built local lumbermill board shack, 16x24. We closed early Aug, 2020 and have been fixing/modding since but at age 70 Immm waayyy sloowww.....
And it still wont be more than a rough shack.
It is starting to look like we might be further ahead faster to contract with a local Amish fellow to tear this one down for salvage and build a comparable sq.ft. 'much better' structure.
Other option is to get a large pre-built shed and Cabin'ize it.
Wadayathink?
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DaveBell
Moderator
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# Posted: 28 Sep 2023 16:58
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pictures
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ICC
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# Posted: 28 Sep 2023 17:02 - Edited by: ICC
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If you are thinking of using a prebuilt shed I have one main criticism of that type of structure. Insulation. And the difficulty of installing a proper amount of insulation and ventilation if the design requires venting, especially in the roof area. To me, a shed is a shed, not a habitable building. But that is my outlook and I know it differs from the ideas of some other folks.
The same insulation comment can apply to some site-built structures as well. I approach insulation with somewhat the same attitude I apply to electricity when it comes to being off-grid. With electrical power, it is best to reduce the kWh used before sizing the off-grid system. With insulation, it is better to have what is recommended for the climate zone (or better) and save power, firewood, propane, oil, etc.
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gcrank1
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# Posted: 28 Sep 2023 17:23
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Staying off-grid, no plumbing, LP furnace, cabin not residence.
Current and expected use pattern, mostly due to us rather than just the weather and snow conditions, is 3 solid seasons with occasional foray in winter if no colder than 30*f (WI can and does get far colder and it just aint fun).
We could do a shed or onsite with 2x6 studs but from past experience we would do fine with f-glass bats in 2x4 stud walls. Could upgrade with 1" styro over the sheathing/under whatever siding for more.
Downside of a build 'for us as minimalists' is that for re-sale it may be a bit too basic. At 70 I have to consider we may well not be doing this for a whole lot longer in spite of feeling right now like Im 55 (LOL).
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frankpaige
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# Posted: 28 Sep 2023 19:08
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Resale you say? How much would be your return on investment?
What does the wife say?
I know at 75, I am Done with any major projects. It is time to sit back and enjoy. But? You might be a young 70 and want that “another adventure “?
It will come to you. Best Wishes
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geobuild
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# Posted: 28 Sep 2023 20:14
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Two years ago I had a 14 x 24 Amish shed optioned into a cabin with the following:
• 2 x 6 studs and rafters, 12: OC
• Tyvek wrap
• 2†(R14) closed cell foam in floor
• Ridge vent
• AdvanTech T&G 3/4" Flooring
I met an architect who is building an incredible vacation house nearby and he told me about Intello Plus interior membrane. He said using it would eliminate having to have an air gap in between the underside of the 5/8†plywood roof and the top of the insulation plus eliminate the need for soffit and ridge vents. I installed 5 ½†of Rockwool insulation in the walls and ceiling. This is an off-grid cabin with composting toilet, Aspen wood burning stove, 1340 watts of Rich solar panels with an Ecoflow Delta Pro and extra battery (3600w x 2). So far, so good. We’ve been there for several days with outside temps at 0oF and had the windows open a bit to keep the temp below 70 degrees. It was also nice this warm summer. Inside temps were cool until about 2-3pm. Then open all the windows, three window fans and by 7pm, interior nice and cool.
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ICC
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# Posted: 28 Sep 2023 21:44
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Quoting: gcrank1 At 70 I have to consider we may well not be doing this for a whole lot longer...
At 77 I know that the more things I keep doing, the more likely it is that I will be able to keep on doing things. Over the past half dozen years I had two life events that required some rest to heal. After getting the okay to get back into things it took more effort.
I will admit that I really have no ambition to build an entire house or cabin anymore. But some repairing, remodeling and so on os fine. Maybe a little slower going than what I used to do.
My current project that is progressing slowly is replacing some fire-damaged barbed wire fencing. Two sections to do, the present is 640 feet. The next a little longer. So far I've spent a few days building 4 new h-braces. The land goes up and down and is steep in places; between 15 and 50% grade. I also removed the old t-posts and installed 36 new ones. Thankfully the soil is mostly pumice and they drive with relative ease. Tomorrow I start on the 4 strands of new barbless 12.5 ga twisted double strand wire. That may take some time as I am slower moving on both the up and the downgrades than I used to be. But my cardiologist tells me to keep at it.
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darz5150
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# Posted: 29 Sep 2023 00:33
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Quoting: ICC At 77 I know that the more things I keep doing, the more likely it is that I will be able to keep on doing things.
Very True. If you don't open the barn door very often, or start the motor on that old tractor. Pretty soon, the hinges will be too rusty to open. Or the engine too gummed up to run.
ðŸ‘
If you don't use it, you'll lose it
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Brettny
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# Posted: 29 Sep 2023 05:54
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It's almost always faster to hire things out but some time the enjoyment is the journey to the finished product. It's a hell of alot cheaper too.
Around here any building that you can close and lock seams to add $20k to a property value. Even a shake built in the 70s and hasnt been taken care of in a decade with no driveway, no power and no water. That's when I decided raw land was for us.
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Brettny
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# Posted: 29 Sep 2023 05:58
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Quoting: Brettny It's almost always faster to hire things out
Quoting my self here...maybe that's not so true in my case. I cut all the wall lumber about 5yrs prior to ever putting a nail up..and I built the saw mill 8yrs ago. I bought the property 3yrs ago. So I Hope's it's the enjoyment lol
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gcrank1
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# Posted: 29 Sep 2023 09:38
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Yeah, use it or lose it is my SOP.
Ive been keeping active, especially since my 4 bypass in Dec 2019 while waiting to close on our cabin. Rocked the clean up and 'making it ours', been doing ongoing fire mitigation, etc.; always something to do and most isnt easy. Also had several substantial injuries and also back on Aug 10 hit/killed/ a big whitetail fawn with my motorcycle. Crashed, partly dislocated shoulder and cracked ribs plus big road-rash. Btw, after 54yr riding Im Done.
All that to say I keep getting whittled down.....and the downtime really slowed my rebuild plans. And has frustrated my wife.....
As Harry Calahan said,"a man has to know his limitations"; guess Im kinda catchin up with that idea.
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Brettny
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# Posted: 29 Sep 2023 09:51
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Dont get your self down. Maybe it's time to just rent a cabin. Theres something nice about locking the door behind you, driving away and not having a care.
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Aklogcabin
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# Posted: 29 Sep 2023 10:39
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Yeah I believe I know what you are feeling, just a little bit. We had plenty of money to hire help building our new n last retirement home. And then sold to our daughter for what she could get a loan for. Lost 100s of big ones. But we have family near us forever. And we have to build another house ourselves. The last home we built was twice the size and took us 4 months.
Family is the most important. We're hoping to be in by Christmas. And probably not be totally completed.
My knee is worn out n hurts a bit but my neck is healthy great. I worked n played hard and still try. Got out moose hunting after 3 years. That was really a healing thing. Even got to hang with Jordan Jonnas for a while. Guy never stops laughing.
Yeah I'm banged up. And had fun getting here. And we have to live on a limited budget now. And building our own home. Hoping to start getting the corner and window trim started today. Alure fiber cement. We lost a house to a forest fire and beautiful wife is more comfortable with the fiber cement.
For what it's worth. I'm kinda proud for you all. Doing your own thing. And getting by. You're questioning about being able to amoratize your investment into a new cabin. If you can stay where you're at n built next door, and do as much work yourselves as you can, is that an option?
Hey I'll say a prayer for you. Have a great day man
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ICC
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# Posted: 29 Sep 2023 15:51 - Edited by: ICC
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Quoting: Brettny It's almost always faster to hire things out
Last year and this year it has been been difficult to find a qualified person for hire in much or northern NM. That will persist for a few more years.
The spring & summer wildfires of 2022 devastated areas ans wiped out 340+ homes and 275+ other buildings. Builders can be choosey about what jobs they take on. Sadly FEMA has not got their act together properly. Three significant fires were all caused by Forest Service poor practises. 100% of damages are supposed to be covered, by act of congress. 4 Billion has been allocated but few people have yet to receive anything. Most of the affected people are not wealthy, just plain folk whose families have lived there for generations. FEMA has been designated as the funnel, but gov moves sloooooowwwwwlllyyyy.
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ICC
Member
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# Posted: 29 Sep 2023 15:55
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Got the bottom 2 wires of the 640 feet up so far. Finish tomorrow I think.
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gcrank1
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# Posted: 29 Sep 2023 19:36
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We went to cabin today, I brush-hogged the last of the fall mow kicking the wild grow back, did some small maintenance and opened up more of the 8x8ish ft wall section on N side where we want a big window to view up the meadow. I had planned to do so in Sept but that Aug 10 accident wrecked that, among other things. Even if I dont get the window in I need to get some styro and weather tightening done there.
It is a lovely 9+ ac, and quiet/always good for a nap (lol), had a couple of bluebirds traveling through at the birdbath  . No way would we want to travel somewhere else to rent a cabin.
Wife is encouraged that Im even considering an 'alternative structure' (thats a good thing) and Ive got a course of action in mind. Next step is to talk to the township assessor and building permit guys about the 'what if' I replace this poor build shack with a comparable sized better built building. This one may have been 'grandfathered in' and a new one may need to be to code? Will find out......
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ICC
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# Posted: 29 Sep 2023 20:27
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Quoting: gcrank1 . This one may have been 'grandfathered in' and a new one may need to be to code
An all new structure usually means all new permits, code and so on. But renovations can sometimes get around some of the 'new stuff' rules. But that usually means having a certain amount of the original that gets kept.
One of the last projects I worked on before retiring involved a very old adobe 1 bedroom home here in NM. We kept a part of the core and built a new home around the old adobe walls.
Good luck
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paulz
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# Posted: 30 Sep 2023 09:18 - Edited by: paulz
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Is there space on your property to build a new cabin and keep the old one intact, at least for awhile?
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gcrank1
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# Posted: 30 Sep 2023 10:50
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Yes there is, Paul, although where we would like the new footprint is 1/3 to 1/2 of the existing one.
As is it runs mostly n/s with a peaked metal roof; Id like the new to be e/w so the slope of roof could face south for best solar exposure. We Hate the look of a ground mount array there in spite of the better access.
I have 6x100w panels, 1000 would be better and on roof Ok.
But it is all spittin into the wind if we have to build a 'small residence to code', that wont happen what with the costs of septic, well, grid, and concrete. Around here that on the cheap would be about $80k on up Before Any Sticks On Top!
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Aklogcabin
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# Posted: 30 Sep 2023 11:46
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Sure glad we don't have the code things. I build above code requirements and use an independent inspector that inspects n signs of the different areas. Foundation, framework n such.
Starting with bare land and building our own home saves a lot of money. Half the cost. And as mentioned, folks walk on the property looking for work demanding 50 bucks hour minimum. Without tools. Personally I do better work anyhows.
Hey g I hope that you find peace with your decisions. Good to see that you are taking steps to get better informed about your particular situation. Your being proactive and moving forward. Always stay moving forward man
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gcrank1
Member
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# Posted: 30 Sep 2023 12:15
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Right On!
My glass is always More than 1/2 full rather than heading toward empty
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ICC
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# Posted: 30 Sep 2023 14:03
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Re: pv panels and electrical code
My thoughts. I orient the dwelling for the preferred view. It is a human habitat first and foremost.
Solar doesn't belong on a roof unless the lot is small and there is no good or safe place to use ground or pole mounts. Accessing panels on a roof is more dangerous, especially as we get older.
Solar and wind generated power are here to stay for quite a while. I try to adapt to changes. Very few telecom towers are disguised to look like fake trees as happened in the 90's.
Solar and code.... Having to build to code should not mean you must connect to the grid. You must be safe and code compliant. There could be someocal shortsighted zoning that requires grid but that is zoning and can be argued against.
I am not grid tied and I am 100% compliant. And grid might not be too bad as friends here are grid tied using the grid like a big battery for $8.16 a month. A few have small battery packs to cover essential power for the shorter outages that occur.
But I understand how the costs can add up and be crazy for a recreational property.
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gcrank1
Member
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# Posted: 30 Sep 2023 16:52
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Thanx, ICC, I always appreciate your input!
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gcrank1
Member
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# Posted: 15 Oct 2023 21:36
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Hear ya on the roof mounted array!
If I have one long wall facing due south and out far enough to get sun until, say, 5:00pm I could have the array ground mounted next/near to the wall.
With that idea we would get our good meadow view to the e,w and n and be far enough away from the existing that we could use it while building.
Ive been looking at maybe a 'garage kit' c/w mods on an insulated slab?
All spitballin because I got seriously sidetracked the past couple weeks and havent yet called the township blg insp.
At least this thread helps get my thinking straightened out, lol.
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gcrank1
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# Posted: 16 Oct 2023 09:35
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Ive never seen what I saw yesterday
Finally got the wall completely opened up that I started on Aug 10 (the day I later crashed).
Pulled all the sawmill boards down to the floor
Pulled the girts
Pulled the f-glass insul
At the bottom, beneath the insul, is a 4ish" gap right down to the ground. NO bottom plate on top of the floor deck, the deck stopped at the inside wall.
Lots of critter tunnels through the insul, and NO vap-barrier on the room side at all, plain unfaced batts Probably whatever he could scare up free or cheap.
Remember, this is a simple post&beam shack. He nailed the rim joist to the inside of the post so the floor stops there. NO conventional studding between the posts and NO diagonal braces off this corner post. The inner wall is between the posts and open to the ground, at least on this peak endwall.
Every section between posts may be different and all should be torn out and rebuilt 
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Tim_Ohio
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# Posted: 16 Oct 2023 10:07
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I approached my cabin with the idea that is was to be an upgrade from camping. So, I call it a camping cabin. The difference, it's far warmer then camping.
It's far cleaner than camping. It has some nice upgrades, such as electric outlets fed from a generator (used in a quiet, insulated shed), comfy bed, bug free, elevated from the ground, protection from really bad weather, a place to keep all of the necessary camping gear without having to pack it up each time, don't have to haul it (camping trailer), private setting and many other things. So, I suggest you approach with a list of what you want out of it. A shed might be enough, it might not. If I wanted to, I could adjust what I built to be permanently inhabited and that's a nice option.
Best of luck on your decision making process.
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gcrank1
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# Posted: 16 Oct 2023 11:10 - Edited by: gcrank1
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All Very Good points Tim!
Guess Im feeling a little old and cranky today after a hard afternoon there yesterday.
You have reminded me that Im generally good with it until I start tearing into it. If we had not decided to put a fairly big window in that wall I would not have done this and found out. Ignorance would have been perhaps not quite bliss, but adequate, lol. I Know that multi generational families have lived in less and still are in many parts of the world.
Thanx for the perspective adjustment
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ICC
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# Posted: 16 Oct 2023 11:22 - Edited by: ICC
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Quoting: gcrank1 simple post&beam
PT posts?
A neighbor has just built a pole structure using untreated, burned dead, logs as the poles and seems to disregard my mention of a couple of pine logs I dug holes and stuck the logs in. They rotted to push-over-by-hand status in 5 years. And we don't get a lot of rain. (I dug a hole for a gate post by hand a couple of days ago. The soil was so dry I had to add water to keep the soil from spilling out of the auger when lifted to empty.)
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gcrank1
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# Posted: 16 Oct 2023 12:52 - Edited by: gcrank1
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Not PT poles, and as far as I can tell no tar, etc. on the ground portion. Based on the rest of the sawmilled stuff I have no illusions regarding the longevity ; however, the soil is well drained fine'ish sand and light gravel.
12 posts/ 4 on long sides, 4 'up the centerline' (so two are in the room by 8ish feet from each end).
Date on one inside post is Aug 2012. Its already made 11years!
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ICC
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# Posted: 16 Oct 2023 18:19
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Well, at least with 12 poles it won't all fall down at once. Maybe sag or buckle a little first as a warning.
I have seen much the same... pole walls with no bottom plate. A climbing wall for whatever rodent comes along.
Good luck and good fortune
Izzy
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