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MoFo2020
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# Posted: 8 Oct 2023 21:52
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Recently bought a small cabin. There is no water well. Unfortunately, budget is not there right now for a well, so I'm looking at other options.
I'm in New Brunswick, Canada, so winters will get freezing by times. Cabin will only used on weekends, so no heat when not in used.
Here's what I am thinking. bury a big tank in the ground with insulation on top. Have an "access" pipe come out the ground for me to refill. From there, having a pump in the tank that would feed a pressure tank (inside the camp).
Camp is only a 10-minute drive by car so hauling water to fill the tank is doable, but I do have some concern with this...
1 - Even tho I would be filling the tank with drinkable water, I am guessing I would not want to drink it, and that's ok, but would I be ok to wash dishes, cook and shower with that water?
2 - Is this even doable or should I just forget about it?
Any other options I should be looking into...
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frankpaige
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# Posted: 8 Oct 2023 22:17
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It is doable. Have you calculated how much water you really need for the weekends? What would be your requirements for water? Drinking, cooking, what else?
A 10 minute drive might not be worth the expense or effort? It really depends on what you are going to be using? Best wishes
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MoFo2020
Member
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# Posted: 8 Oct 2023 22:24
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requirements would be, cooking, dishes, shower and flushing the toilet.
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frankpaige
Member
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# Posted: 8 Oct 2023 22:51
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Everyone’s weekend cabin requirements are so different. You have to choose what is yours. Do you do a bit of “home style “ cooking? Then you need to do dishes. Showers? For the weekend? That is a decision we all make. Now! Flushing that toilet. That is going to require a bit more H2O. Just like doing a power audit. You need to know what your requirements are.
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gcrank1
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# Posted: 8 Oct 2023 23:12
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Ours is off-grid, dry, sc Wisconsin, pretty much 3 season because winters here are too cold for real enjoyment.
No well so we (the 2 of us) haul potable water in 2.5gal jug and have a 2.5 in cabin. Rain barrel off the metal roof, simple filter, for utility in season. That is dumped before freeze up and we haul in some extra 2.5gal jug(s) for utility, amount depending upon stay.
Fwiw we use Far Less than average water per person per day in cabin life! No shower, no flush T (diy compost T) so no septic. We used to do the pit-T thing; never again.
I suggest you do a simple season of feeling it all out before making big plans or changes.
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Steve_S
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# Posted: 9 Oct 2023 02:44
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Likely the simplest & best solution is to just stop at the grocery store on the way up to the cabin and grab a bottle or two of the 20L Culligan Water. With the small hand pump readily available for about $5 and you're all set.
See here:
https://www.homedepot.ca/product/vitapur-manual-water-pump/1001197301
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FishHog
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# Posted: 9 Oct 2023 08:17
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Look into the alternatives to having a flush toilet and your life will get a lot easier
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gcrank1
Member
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# Posted: 9 Oct 2023 09:20 - Edited by: gcrank1
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Steve, that pump came up at $15 just now at Thunder Bay; inflation hits again!
Still far cheaper than a well.
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ICC
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# Posted: 9 Oct 2023 09:38
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If you have a flush toilet you will also be using a fair amount of RV anti-freeze to prevent freeze damage. Think about a composting system or a privy if that is permitted.
An underground cistern with an umbrella of XPS sheet insulation buried over the top works. I would advise thinking about using a submersible pump in the cistern to transfer water to an indoor storage tank and an RV water pump to supply water to the cabin points of use.
What is the source of the water that could be transported to the cistern? A municipal system would be chlorinated and safe for storage underground for most washing uses.
I transport either collected and treated rainwater or well water from a known safe well to my cabin.
I carry in drinking water in 3 gallon jugs as needed and use the cistern water for all else.
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bushbunkie
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# Posted: 9 Oct 2023 10:06
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That sounds like a lot of work…we use our cabin in the winter without water as well. We fill 2-3 of the 20 litre culligan bottles at home and take our little porta potty system out of the outhouse and put it the cabin washroom using peat moss to cover our business which takes any odour away quickly. Before we go home, we just do a a quick washcloth bath…heat up water on wood stove….uses up very little water. This has worked for us for years.
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Steve_S
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# Posted: 9 Oct 2023 12:29
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Quoting: gcrank1 Steve, that pump came up at $15 just now at Thunder Bay; inflation hits again!
I bought 2 at the little village dollar store for $12 with tax a while back, I just used the Homedepot link as the example, same thing though...
Drinking water vs Utility water, the Culligan bottle is the simplest & safest for low use. Utility water being rain, shallow well or other, not potable but suitable general uses.
New Brunswick has fairly reasonable laws too, unlike some places. Depending on the property location (proximity to water) it may be quite possible to use composting toilets / sawdust toilets etc which don't require water. There are several of us here who use such without issues.
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travellerw
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# Posted: 9 Oct 2023 21:10
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Your timing is impeccable. We have a 4 season cabin here in Northern Alberta. I just finished winterizing my system (RV antifreeze in all the lines).
I gave up on the whole bury a tank.. put a tank inside... ect ect. (for now.... I have designed and built a DIY water well drill for the spring, hopefully I can drill my own well) We just don't use pressure water in the winter. Instead we bring water for drinking/cooking. We use baby wipes for a quick "bath" over the weekend. Still use our kitchen sink with water and a bucket in the cabinet to catch the dirty water (we just chuck the water in the bush)
We have an un-insulated sewer tank under the cabin but the toilet pipe is insulated with heat tape. We will use the toilet over the winter with water we pour in the toilet (room temp). This is our first year doing that, but we are pretty sure warm water and an insulated drain pipe with heat will mean the effluent hits the tank at a warm enough temp to "spread out". We will see if we get the dreaded poop mountain (I don't think so as the max we will use it over winter is 10 weekends). Its a large tank and should easily accommodate 10 weekends over the winter before getting full. We will simply empty it in the spring when it all melts.
Anyway.. That is our solution. We looked into "composting" toilets but had bad experiences in the past. Also they require a warm environment for a certain number of hours after you do your business (like 48 hours at least). Otherwise, you just get a frozen turd mixed with whatever desiccant material you have selected.
Really.. There is no one solution and each person/location/cabin will be different. Don't be afraid to think outside the box. You would be surprised how comfortable you can be without a pressured water system, especially in a limited use cabin. It also makes things way easier (and a whole metric s-ton cheaper)
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gcrank1
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# Posted: 9 Oct 2023 23:50 - Edited by: gcrank1
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Our compost-T:
Has worked for us in the below freezing temps. Admittedly it is just two of us and pretty occasional visits but I know will work for more frequent visits too.
The 'bucket' is in the 'out', and emptied in late fall into the bin, base layer of pine needles layered in and used as normal; ie, covering the do with 'browns' of coarse sawdust (in summer we also add in 'greens'; ie, grass clippings) If/when it is 1/2 full it gets dumped into the covered bin. Yes, the do freezes, it also readily dumps out and into the bin. Come spring warm up it all hits temp and composts. No bugs, no smell, works fine.
I do the bucket maintenance, it is no big deal and really not often, and my wife is happy with the setup too.
For bad weather we do have a discrete indoor unit that gets emptied daily if used; just like many/most had to do 100yrs ago and still do in much of the world.
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Aklogcabin
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# Posted: 10 Oct 2023 09:52
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We use our cabin year round. For potable water we will either melt snow in a bucket is easiest. We have a MSR water purifying pump and a good friend donated to new purifying pump for the cabin. Kayden maybe. Nice to have 2 in case one breaks. We will also freight out a couple jugs if needed. We keep a large 4 gallon hot water bath canning pot on the woodstove full of water. And a 1galllon coffee pot full of warm water for washing up. We are use a 12v pump to pump the water to the shower head and stand in a 4' long tote. I staple a shower curtain up. Have the pump on a toggle switch so I can soap up then rinse. And a valve to control volume of water being used. And always have wet wipes around.
We have a kitchen sink drain to a 5 gallon bucket for now. Will burry a leach line. We also have a sand point well started and just need to finish pounding. And we should have full time potable water at the kitchen sink. 12v pump used with a built in pressure switch .
For septic we have an Incinolet incinerator toilet. Burns everything to dry ash. 30amp electric. We have generators. Or you can put several good quality garbage bags in it and use it like this. I would highly recommend an incinerator toilet.
I plan to build an incinerator with a 55 gallon drum. Basically a barrel stove with a fuel oil fired burner to have around when several folks are using the cabin.
But for me n my beautiful wife. The Incinerator works. And hopefully the well will be finish some day.
Glad to see you being able to get out n use the cabin more. Cabin time is good time
Incinolet
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Shower set up
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Sand point well started under kitchen counter n
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MoFo2020
Member
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# Posted: 10 Oct 2023 11:30
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Would love to hear more about your DIY water well drill ... That could be something I could look into for sure
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MoFo2020
Member
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# Posted: 10 Oct 2023 11:34
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travellerw
Quoting: MoFo2020 I have designed and built a DIY wat
Would love to hear more about your DIY water well drill ... That could be something I could look into for sure
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SCSJeff
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# Posted: 10 Oct 2023 15:52
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Wow, I must be the only one who's wife said "no running water and no toilet, me no come" 
So we forego finishing the inside of the cabin in order to drill a well and have a septic installed.
That being said, in hind sight, I think I could have got by with rain catchment instead of the well expense.
I was thinking an outside (buried or maybe not) tank for the rain catchment with an inside smaller tank that won't freeze during winter stays.
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MoFo2020
Member
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# Posted: 10 Oct 2023 20:23
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Aklogcabin
how will you pull water from the sand point well?
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Aklogcabin
Member
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# Posted: 11 Oct 2023 09:21
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We have a 12v lift pump. Cost was about 75 bucks. Will set underneath the counter and running a suction hose down the well pipe. The lift pump has a built in pressure switch. So we can hook up to the kitchen sink directly. Then if you want water just turn the faucet on. They also make submersible pumps that are 1-7/8" diameter so it fits down a 2" pipe.
I could probably put a toilet in and pour water into the tank to flush if I could get a septic system in. Don't know about that one but it could be done
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spencerin
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# Posted: 12 Oct 2023 23:37 - Edited by: spencerin
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Yes, it's very doable. Although I agree that if the cabin's only 10 minutes away, it might not be worth the expense.....though it'll greatly increase resale value.
Cooking, cleaning, showering - all safe. Drinking? Likely safe, too, provided what goes in the tank is already potable, it doesn't sit *forever*, and you treat it with bleach on a regular schedule. That said, the worst that would happen would likely be Montezuma's Revenge. I have the same setup as what you proposed and tested water that sat for at least a year (treated with bleach, though), and it tested safe.....
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travellerw
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# Posted: 12 Oct 2023 23:41 - Edited by: travellerw
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Quoting: MoFo2020 Would love to hear more about your DIY water well drill ... That could be something I could look into for sure
Very loosely based on the video below. We actually tried a design very close to his (electric drill, tower, ect) and got no where (ground is very hard here). So I beefed everything up and am using a 2 stroke auger motor for power. Stronger tower and weights on the rig (not just human power pushing down).
We have drilled 3 exploratory holes so far. We get about 25ft and hit rock all 3 times (not to mention a layer of coal at 17ft). With winter coming we are putting if off till spring, but moving over 100 yards hoping to have better luck. We will see!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQRhsoSCXvg&t=417s&pp=ygUPZGl5IHdhdGVyIHdlbGwg
Just know.. If you are in a difficult area, drilling your own well is not simple and will consume HUGE amounts of time to build the rig (with specialized gear). Not to mention the actual drilling. We only need to go 50ft based on neighbors wells and so far that is looking "challenging". No way a sandpoint would work based on the challenges so far.
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