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paulz
Member
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# Posted: 25 Nov 2023 18:28
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These guys say refill is about a buck less a gallon. Don't know who they are, maybe in the refill biz..
https://www.ferrellgas.com/tank-talk/blog-articles/propane-tank-exchange-vs-refill-wh ich-is-better-for-you/#:~:text=The%20decision%20about%20propane%20tank,answer%20is%20 refilling%20is%20cheaper.
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travellerw
Member
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# Posted: 25 Nov 2023 18:38
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Seems like this is very regional..
Here in Edmonton, the cost to exchange a tank is between $30-35. The cost to fill at tank at Costco is about $15 (depending on the current price).
So... I refill and use the savings to buy 15 beer... ;)
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paulz
Member
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# Posted: 25 Nov 2023 19:13
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My local Ace Hardware is $22 exchange. Online I read they put 4.6 gallons in to leave breathing room. That's about $4.80 a gallon. The refiller here charges $4.00 last I looked.
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gcrank1
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# Posted: 25 Nov 2023 19:39
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Ime 'exchange' is a racket to give you less LP for a full cylinder price.
Sometimes it is all you can get.
We have a place that opens the bleed valve and fills until it spits; you pay for the actual fill.
That valve spit is at the right place for the expansion room.
Iirc the one I had filled late last summer was about $14
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ICC
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# Posted: 25 Nov 2023 20:16 - Edited by: ICC
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The claim that the exchange people make about short filling leaving room as a safety thing is BS. The OPD valve with its bleeder are designed to leave room for expansion is all the safety you need. In any case do not store or use a tank that was designed to be vertical in a horizontal position.
-izzy
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travellerw
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# Posted: 25 Nov 2023 20:37 - Edited by: travellerw
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Around here the spit valve is no longer allowed (can't let hydrocarbons in the atmosphere, don't cha know).
We do have OPD though.. The more lenient stations will actually fill bottles on your trailer. They just listen for the "clunk" and the loud pump noise (like a vacuum hose being plugged). When that happens the float in the OPD valve has closed and the bottle is "full" (80%). Its the whole purpose of the OPD valve (Overfill Protection Device).
Costco has really strict rules for their staff. At least here, they use a scale that is tied to the pump. When the scale hits the right weight it actually turns the pump off. So you really can't get ripped off.
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gcrank1
Member
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# Posted: 25 Nov 2023 21:24
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Except...
The Tare Wt of the cylinder varies, and is stamped on the collar. The capacity of a 20# cylinder is 20# LP plus the Tare Wt so the scale cant just be 'set' once for all.
LP weighs 4.24# per gal or 4.71 gal in a 20#er. Some places around here only put in 80% of that and say that is the 'regulation'.
Some have a 'gal meter' on the pump.
Some charge by 'the fill' and others by the actual quantity.
Using the above you can weigh your 20#er, subtract the Tare Wt and the remainder is the weight of the LP left in it. With that you can go to your fill station and KNOW how much needs to go in for the 'fill'.
Then you decide if you are being treated fairly or not.
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ICC
Member
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# Posted: 25 Nov 2023 22:52 - Edited by: ICC
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Quoting: travellerw spit valve is no longer allowed
How do they handle the purge of air on the initial fill of a new cylinder?
Quoting: gcrank1 The Tare Wt of the cylinder varies, and is stamped on the collar
Everybody here uses a scale, or they are supposed to. Most do manual calcs. A couple dealers charge extra if the cylinder is not empty. One big dealer has the auto cutoff valve tied into the scale. The operator places the cylinder on the scale, punches a button that records that weight. After the tare weight from the collar is entered and another button press, the computer does the calculation and is ready to dispense only the proper amount. Slick but costs money I imagine.
-izzy
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travellerw
Member
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# Posted: 25 Nov 2023 23:07
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Quoting: ICC How do they handle the purge of air on the initial fill of a new cylinder?
"Done at the factory before purchase".... Bottle is put under a vacuum before sale. That is the story. However, I have bought at least 10 new bottles since that happened and never had an issue.
Propane is an interesting problem. Temp has big effects.
Now... I'm gonna tell a "Do no do this at home story". When I was young (15 or 16), I worked for a fuel station that had propane. Our small tank system was super old with no safety. You could literally crack a valve and propane would puff or pour out the nozzle. If it was really cold (like below -34C) it would come out as a liquid fog and slowly spread across the ground. We used to make a small cloud and run back, then flick a match into it. Bask in the light and heat!
It was fun till one of our more intellect challenged employees made a huge cloud. He was blown off his feet and the fireball summoned the police and fire department.... Sigh.. Its all fun and games until someone is too dumb! However, I think maybe we were the dummies for showing him!
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909
Member
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# Posted: 26 Nov 2023 01:15
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Called a few of the larger suppliers, and they'll only give you a price break if purchase a huge giant tank .
If you simply rent a giant tank from them, the rates work out to about $1 per pound . So when I'm refilling my little 20 pounders I'll go to wherever it's convenient that charges about $20 per fill and I'm OK with that since it's the going rate.
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darz5150
Member
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# Posted: 26 Nov 2023 01:25 - Edited by: darz5150
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I used to get my propane guy to fill any tank I had for the " Off the truck price"
In the summer it could be less than a buck per gallon.
New delivery guy.
Now, I have a locked in price contract for $1.81
a gallon. But the new rules he told me is they can't fill the #20 tanks because they have to charge by the pound, and he didn't have any way to weigh the small tanks. I asked, "Don't you know how many gallons you are pumping?"
He said yes. But he still couldn't fill the bbq tanks because they don't want to overfill them without a scale. I asked if he knew what an OPV was. He said he did.
Yet he still can fill my #30 and #100 tanks because they have a bleeder screw and he would know when they are full. When in reality you can overfill them, depending on the ambient temp. I actually had one vent out lp that was filled in the cold then purged it out in hotter temps.
The last question I had was how many pounds of propane did he just deliver? He Only knows how many gallons. Go figure!
The local farm stores are charging .95 per # I believe. Not sure tho.
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Brettny
Member
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# Posted: 26 Nov 2023 07:43
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I exchange any old or failed tanks for about $16 at walmart. Other than that I refill for $10 a 20lb tank at a local place. 100lb tanks are $60.
I own about 21 20lb tanks. I use to find them on the side of the road alot.
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Steve_S
Member
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# Posted: 26 Nov 2023 08:17
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Haha, interesting thread.
Gee wiz, I have a different twist...
I have "exchange" 20 pounders but I refill them at the local discount supplier for $15 CAD a tank... When the tanks reach that "age date" I take them back to the swap place and get a new one and voila good for another couple of years at least.
Seems filling rules are a bit different where you are. Here all the LPG places put the tank on a scale which fills & cuts off as previously described. LPG trucks that come to homes etc to fill the Static Tanks are not allowed to fill anything else, if they get caught - its not good.
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Nobadays
Member
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# Posted: 26 Nov 2023 09:12
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Quoting: Brettny I exchange any old or failed tanks
This...l I've bought some pretty disgusting 20# and 30# tanks at yard sales for $5-$10, exchange the 20# for good tanks then always gave them filled after that. Here in Colorado the local CoOp is ~$12 to fill a 20# tank, but charged by the gallon. They also do recertification on tanks for $10 plus cost of a new valve if needed.
We have found that altitude causes havoc with filling tanks. If we come up from AZ in our campervan with an empty/nearly empty propane tank, the air pressure in the tank has to be bled off before they can get propane in. Probably depends on their equipment but at one RV park their pump would shut off because of the back pressure yet the tank Guage was clearly showing well below half full. They said it was common. Just opened the bleed screw and let the air bleed for... a long time... and finally it filled.
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paulz
Member
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# Posted: 26 Nov 2023 09:32
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Quoting: Brettny I own about 21 20lb tanks
Me too. My first cabin tank out back in the beginning feeds the water heater, indoor wall heater and cooktop. Another for the BBQ out on the deck. Then I added a clothes dryer and LP generator this year. All that stuff gets regular use, 4 tanks in use, while other 20lb. tank things like deck lights and outdoor heaters sit empty.
I should check dates and exchange old tanks, but the refill guy at the gas station doesn't even look.
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pabear89
Member
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# Posted: 26 Nov 2023 11:43
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Seems to be location oriented.
Gallon of propane is 4.4lbs
Tried to get company truck to fill my 250 gal tank,
But they will not come to property even tho they fill the nearby property less then 1/2 mile down the road.
So I mounted the tank on a trailer with a hose off the bottom and tank fill valve.
I use it to fill 100lb tanks I have at different spots.
Gravity feeds liquid filling tanks takes more time than pumping but works.
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paulz
Member
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# Posted: 26 Nov 2023 23:27 - Edited by: paulz
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Had 5 tanks refilled today at the gas station. $73, $77 with tax. 22 gallons (had to take his word but they were all empty). Sign says $3.99 but i have a membership card, paid $3.50. So that’s about 4.4 gallons per tank, he did loosen the screws until gas came out.
Would have been $110 for exchanges at Ace Hardware.
Thanks for all the input.
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