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Anonymous
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# Posted: 1 Apr 2012 18:49
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Need some advice, I have always wanted to build a cabin in the woods. Well I have the woods and have finally saved enough to buy supplies to build a small cabin. I have $2700 cash saved and should be able to get to thirty five hundred by the end of may and if I budget better and sell some things perhaps $4500. I am waiting for a phone call from the state to tell me how big I can build my camping shed without a permit in New Mexico. I'm assuming it will have to be under 100 sq feet but it is off a dirt road so who knows. I have the last week of May off and then All Summer so I do have the time to build it myself with advice from my father and uncle. I am off grid so everything would have to be pre-cut unless I were to buy a generator with some of the cabin funds. Also would like to fence property or as much as possible as rancher has cattle that venture onto my property. I have dogs and would like to be able to let them roam free.
Ok here are my questions. My plans were to build a small 12x8 cabin with the concrete deck piers. After reading alot on this site about break in to cabins, deck piers shifting because of frost, I am tempted to buy gutted aluminum shed braced with 2x4's, Airstream Trailer or School bus and put wood burning stove in and park on Property. Liked the thought of a shipping container but I don't think a truck could get one into my property with the current driveway.
1. Has anyone here lived in both a bus/trailer and a small cabin? If so what are the pro's and cons? I would not haul trailer or Bus back but would keep on property so when I visit in winter I would be able to snowshoe in and have shelter with stove.
My property is at 7000 ft elevation and gets quite a bit of snow so I worry about the snow load on the trailer or alluminum shed. I like the idea of the loft and water catchment system that can come with the Cabin.
2. Am I doing in the right order Shelter first then Fence? Or should it be the other way around. I'm just tired of living out of a tent.
Any thoughts are appreciated, thanks!
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 1 Apr 2012 19:57
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I hope you told them you just wanted to build a storage shed. No permits needed if less than 200 square feet. (Used to be 120 sq ft but they changed it this year.) But the intent is for it to be storgae, or a playhouse.... Here's a quote from the regs/application... "One story detached accessory buildings used as tool and storage sheds, playhouses, and similar uses, provided the floor area does not exceed 200 square feet."
Also check what any local zoning regulations there may be. Some areas have restrictions that do not allow accessory buildings before the main building is built.
You can download the document from the CID website. The form lists situations/things permits are NOT required for.
Other forms/info from the NM CID here.
As for living in an RV on site in the mountains we did that for a few years while we cleared, cleaned and decided where to build our cabin. The good part was living on site for a couple summers and many weekends through all seasons was it gave us time to think out where we really wanted the cabin. We changed the spot three times.
The bad part is that RV's are poorly insulated, especially older ones like ours. The single pane windows collected lots of condensation in cool weather. Using those clear plastic stick on storm windows did help but you could still feel the cold air pouring off the windows.
We're at 8800 feet in the Jemez. Lots of snow in a good winter. I installed temporary winter roof supports inside each fall. I ran a 2x6 down the ceiling front to rear. Then cut 4x4 posts to fit between that and a plywood square that was placed on the carpeted floor to spread the weight. I also made and placed temporary boxes over the roof skylight/vents to keep snow weight off the plastic. We never had any problems from the accumulated snow on the roof but the posts were a PITA. If I was leaving the RV there for years I'd look into building a roof to shelter the snow (and to add summer shade).
Fence? We did that first in order to keep the free range cattle in the adjacent national forest off our property. I don't mind the cattle but do mind what they leave behind. Plus that gave more meaning to the "private property - no trespassing" signs we put up.
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Just
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# Posted: 1 Apr 2012 20:36
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WE too have had both, except we did it the other way 2000-2007 had a cabin 8 x 12 with loft , 2008 till now we 've had a trailer
as DON says the cabin is a much more substantial building . being warmer in winter and cooler in summer . we have added a snow roof to our trailer and a wood stove .total cost for the cabin about 5000 . for the trailer about 2000$ rain water and solar power for both .
i guess it all comes down to your pride and your pocketbook ...
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Rob_O
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# Posted: 1 Apr 2012 23:28
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Quoting: Anonymous Am I doing in the right order Shelter first then Fence? I'm just tired of living out of a tent.
Absolutely! Within a month of buying my property I bought a $500 travel trailer, fixed the roof leaks and moved it out there. I'd like to bring it home for a little "maintenance" but I'm afraid the tires won't make the trip!
This will be my third Summer having the trailer out there. Having a dry place to sleep makes every trip better
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Anonymous
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# Posted: 1 Apr 2012 23:32
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Mtn Don and Just thank you for the replys.
Don we are southwest of you by the contental divide. It's a six hour drive from where I live in Phoenix AZ so I will mainly be using it during the summer when I'm not working and 3 day weekends in the Fall which I guess is why I'm second guessing investing the cash into the stick built structure. If it was only an hour away I would be there almost every weekend. I could bring the trailer back with me at the End of Summer or before the Snows. However, after reading what you and just wrote and looking at the website, the larger "Storage Shed" closer to 200 sq feet is very enticing. That is great news. Did not think about the cold getting in the windows and it gets COLD there. I am heading over Thursday Night to scout out some locations for the cabin/trailer and set up the new trail cam I ordered. There are alot of good sites for building but really havn't taken pictures or measured or leveled anything. We are like you, right up against the National Forest where the rancher leases the land with about 30 head. They stay away when we are there but lots of cowpies and when he brings them up from the valley in early June the flies seem to come with them.
Just great pictures thanks for sharing. I'm going to price wood soon and then decide trailer /Fence v.s. Cabin for now. Don, Good to know that it is possible to rig the trailer for snow. I got married this past year and I know kids will be down the road sooner than later so I need to do improvements while I a window of time.
I have thought about selling my share to my father and trying to find something closer in AZ but it would be hard to find property bordering National Forest off the dirt road for a fair price and then it would be time before I saved enough for the shed/trailer.
Mtn Don do you have a locked gate to your property? A local told us a few years back if we build a gate not to lock it as the locals who have been hunting in our area for years would be upset.
Thanks
Red Bear
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Anonymous
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# Posted: 1 Apr 2012 23:34
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Thanks Rob O, the muddy dog paws, crawling in and out of the tent for two weeks stay has gotten really old! I will keep you all updated.
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 2 Apr 2012 00:59
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Yes we have a locked steel pipe gate. We share the gate with the landowner who split off the acreage we bought. There's a nicely platted legal right of way and all and they are the greatest most helpful people.
We've never been bothered by hunters; lucky maybe. But it helps that the land as a block was always mostly fenced and signed from the national forest boundaries. We and the neighbors are on a national forest landlocked block of land. Mostly it has always been fenced. Much of it had been badly neglected and the falling dead trees really did a number on sections of it. We put a priority on repairing and then improving the fence after we were awakened one morning by the RV rocking. It was right after we had taken the Class C up there. Cattle were licking the flies off the front end. They left gifts for us and we decided that was enough of that. 
There are 3 others plus us; one we only see maybe once a year, another maybe 3 times. The third is the most helpful and usually in there over the summer months a lot. We're there more than all the others put together.
The other two neighbors have their own locked gates. We have built a series of rough roads/trails from one property to the other so we can have emergency egress routes. We all share the combinations/keys. It could be real handy in case of a wildfire.
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 2 Apr 2012 01:19
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As for the old time locals being upset about not having access to land "they have always hunted on" that can be a problem. But there is also the issue of property owner rights, which I am a great believer in. The world at large and our own little neighborhoods do not stand still. Things change. People come and go. Properties change hands. I'd try to have a talk if there was any way to find one or two of the locals. You and I didn't pay good money to own land that we're somehow supposed to share with strangers.
Some people can and do get very upset when fences and gates pop up. Years ago I contracted to fence 45 acres for a person who had simply got tired of some of the people who entered their private but unfenced land and caused damage. I can't remember how many people came along really incensed that I was pulling fence wire. I took to wearing a revolver as a part of my tool gear. The encounters were much more civil after that. That was 20+ years ago. I go past that land once in a while and see the fences are still there and the damage done to the landscape by the former trespassers has healed to being almost invisible now. So it seems the folks who were upset got over it.
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Rob_O
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# Posted: 2 Apr 2012 21:09
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Quoting: Anonymous the muddy dog paws, crawling in and out of the tent for two weeks stay has gotten really old!
I have two dogs, my girlfriend has two as well. I never even considered tent camping as an option, the dogs have their bed and we have ours.
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Red Bear
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# Posted: 2 Apr 2012 22:26
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Mtn Don, thanks for the info, love reading your posts. Would love to have a pipe gate and steel posts cemented along the road.... the forest service road cuts right through the southern part of our property and when it gets muddy people just drive off the road and through our meadow, they tear it up pretty bad. My father was repairing signs along the road and a guy drove off the road across the meadow and my Dad told him that it was private property and the Guy yelled " I'm going to drive through this meadow when I need to, the road gets too wet!" Your right, the locals had the chance to buy this property long before we did, so you save up and then buy it and feel like we are wrong for wanting certain things done a certain way with our own property. Just need to see how close we can build the fence to the road with the Forest Service. Hoping with a permanant shelter I will be there more to watch the traffic. Good to know you have nieghbors close by that are allies. All three parcels next to mine are vacant as of yet. We tired to buy the one West of us but it's a an older couple in Flordia who say they are keeping it for their kids. We've never seen them, of course they might be like some of your neighbors, they come the end of June or late fall and miss them.
Thats funny about those Cows licking the car. I've seen cows licking cars before but thought it was salt in the dust or something! Now I know.
Other interesting notes
- I'm usually there a week or two in the beg of June and every other night at dusk there is single rifle shot, and I have NEVER seen a game and fish officer around
- Few years back, rancher said found one of his prize bulls shot up with shotgun and shot in testicles
- My dad told rancher when he was bringing water to cows that he thought he was overgrazing the area, his response " You city folks always come up here and tell us how to live!"
- Want to start thinning National Forest to the West of us as it is a tinder box, any idea how hard it is to get a wood cutting/thinning permit?
Thanks again for all the help and advice
Rob 0. I agree, wrestling Dog for blanket in the middle of night is not fun!
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Red Bear
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# Posted: 2 Apr 2012 22:57
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Two pics of Property
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 2 Apr 2012 23:51 - Edited by: MtnDon
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Quoting: Red Bear .... the forest service road cuts right through the southern part of our property
There should be records at the county offices that will show exactly how wide the FS road right of way is. That would help with the fence placement.
Interesting note: (interesting to me anyways ;) ) In the Jemez there are several sections of FS roads that pass through privately owned land that do not have proper right of way easements. They screwed up decades ago. Mostly this has been a PITA when some land owner has discovered this and erected gates. One case I know of resulted in the FS road being closed to the public. In another the landowner lost for some reason, I'm not sure of. They had to spend big money on one section of the main north-south road that passes through some 600 acres of privately held land about thirty years ago. I wonder what the status of the road that crosses your property is? The county should have some records.
Guys like that (guy driving across the meadow) make me angry. It's just as bad when the yahoos do that in the NF as that just gives the FS another reason to want to close more areas.
I've never asked the FS about thinning and cleaning up FS land myself. The local district office has been working on thinning for the past three years and have done a pretty good job so far. We've been busy enough doing our own thinning. The big problem here is getting rid of the trees already on the ground as well as any newly cut trees taken in the thinning process. Here the FS uses the fuelwood permit process to get a lot of the thinned trees and older dead and down taken for residential firewood. Sometimes the slash and left overs are then shredded by huge macerators that drive through and chew up everything. A sight to see! But much of the terrain is too sloped for machines so then they have to do winter burns, which are difficult because of snow. At least they are doing something.
There are some areas they haven't done though. It might be worth our effort to ask \at the district office. I'm not really sure what to expect their reaction to be. "Oh, you can't do that" seems likely, yet on the other hand they have limited resources ($$), so might accept help. ???
Oh, a friend in VA has had some luck with getting the Sheriff and courts after trespassers on his land. he has multiple game cameras set up and has video and stills of people driving through, hunting etc. Good enough to ID people and the Sheriff has taken several to court with the photo and video evidence. It has helped reduce the trespassing as word gets around. You need whatever signs the state laws require to be posted to begin with.
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Seto
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# Posted: 3 Apr 2012 12:24
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I moved onto my place with a tight budget, I bought a 73 terry taurus camper for $500 and already owned a lot of basic tools. after i bought the land with my savings i cleared a trail and had my camper moved in with a 10' by 14' storage barn. I was planning to get a larger cabin built to winter in but had no funds so insulated the barn and put in a cheap wood stove. plus side was that all the first summer i was clearing overgrown brush and snags and stacking it as firewood, i have a ten year supply now. i would suggest if your not living full time you just use a trailer/bus, a steep A frame roof can be made over the top to shed snow and can be a good place tto set up some cheap solar pannels, the plus side of a bus/trailer is that a lot of the electric in them is already DC that runs on a 12 volt battery, a relativly cheap solar outfit will keep the battery charged.
if you have enough time i would suggest skip the generator, order some materials pre cut and use a hand saw and square on things that are easy (2x4s, pine etc).
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AYP1909
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# Posted: 3 Apr 2012 15:57
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Quoting: Red Bear Want to start thinning National Forest to the West of us as it is a tinder box, any idea how hard it is to get a wood cutting/thinning permit?
Red Bear, Here is a link to the Santa Fe National Forest for wood cutting permits:
http://www.fs.fed.us/r3/sfe/newsroom/2007/May/07-05-1%20_d&d_permits.html
If you are in a different forest they will be able to direct you to the appropriate office.
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 3 Apr 2012 17:05
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It's the "thinning" part that is difficult. All the FS fuelwood permits are for "dead and down" timber and only in areas they designate. Nothing live or standing can be taken. It would be great if they would make accomodations for landowners with NF adjacent to their property.
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TomChum
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# Posted: 3 Apr 2012 19:34 - Edited by: TomChum
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Quoting: Seto use a hand saw and square on things that are easy (2x4s, pine etc).
Not me...... I'd consider a set like this DeWalt set, if you are going to build out in the woods this is a great set to have. You can get a 12v charger too, then you have 2 chargers, which will probably be necessary. You might consider a small solar system to recharge it.
The set costs a lot of money, but at least its stuff that you will need from here on out. A generator is good to have, but I hate the noise, it's relentless, and you can't hear yourself think out there in that wonderful quiet place.
I know other folks like their air nailers, but personally I cant see the necessity for a small cabin. All that noise of the generator, for walls that are ~12 feet long? If you are doing this for your job, to make a living then yes, but you're not, it;s just a little cabin.
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Aqua
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# Posted: 8 Apr 2012 04:14
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I would build something sturdy, as good as you can afford. Otherwise you split up your money by putting it into a trailer, and you want to upgrade later because of the lacking roof and insulation.
IMO be willing to wait on the fencing, so you can put resources toward the cabin. Keep an eye out for cheap or free used fencing.
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rayyy
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# Posted: 8 Apr 2012 08:17
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I would stick with a cabin.You can build a basic 12x12 structure,4 walls and a roof for less than $500.And just work on the rest of it as you have the time and money.I started out with an old camper but you really can't heat the thing very well and roof leaks,mice,condensation,mildew,frozen pipes,black water tank problems,cramped small capacity,just an over all pain in the _ _ _.Then when it sits there for many years,what do you do with it.the tires are dry rotted.Breaks are rusted solid,can't be moved.You build your cabin right and you got somthing nice for years down the road.
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Anonymous
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# Posted: 8 Apr 2012 15:10
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Build an 8 foot wide cabin and make it portable if you want to move it in the future.
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