|
| Author |
Message |
Danielcan
Member
|
# Posted: 4 Nov 2013 18:51
Reply
Mad trapper shack
Hello all,
I own five acres way back in the bush a half hour past Prince George , I call it my northern estate. It's a mostly level parcel with a small knoll in one corner. It was logged 15 years ago and now is covered in shrubs and small trees, however it is completely surrounded by 100 year old crown forest. There is also a 40 acre lake about 200 meters away.
The plan is to build a tiny log cabin, about 10' x 8'. There are plenty of dead trees in the surrounding forest held off the ground by other trees, so logs won't be a problem. The problem is access. There is no chance of a truck getting in there and even a quad would be sketchy at best. All I got is a dirt bike with a six jug milk crate strapped to the back. All my material has to be brought in on that so a dimensional wood frame is not an option.
For the foundation I plan on splitting lengthways an 8 foot log about 18 inches in diameters, and lying the two halves flat sides down on top of the levelled knoll. I will then cut V notches perpendicular into the top of each about six inches from their ends, in this I will lay my sill logs of about a ten foot length and 12 inch diameter. Into these I will cut a step the whole length into which I will will lay split logs with squared ends to make my floor. Next I will continue with the walls. And a single slope gable roof with an angle favourable to solar panels. For roofing material I will use a 10x8 foot sheet of zink galvanized steel that was once the roof of an office trailer on the site, but was pushed into the slash pile.
Two things I haven't quite made my mind up about are, first, to get the sloped roof I'm thinking to have the taper of all the side logs go the same way, and just use thinner logs on the south side and thicker on the north. I realize it won't give me much of a slope but I'm thinking one to two inches a foot will be enough. Second, what to use for chinking? I was thinking some kind of concrete product, but the mason to work seemed to think it would crack and fall apart as the logs expand and contract over the winter, plus its heavy and expensive. Right now it seems my best bet would be silicone for the small stuff and expanding foam for the big stuff.
Thoughts?
image.jpg
| 
image.jpg
| 
image.jpg
|  |
|
|
davey25
Member
|
# Posted: 4 Nov 2013 19:01
Reply
Just don't lay any of the logs on the ground..put them on rocks..you might need more than that one sheet of metal..you need some overhangs..as for chinking all depends how much you want to spend..you can use cement with lots of small little nails..or use the proper foam with permachink or sascho...
|
|
bldginsp
Member
|
# Posted: 4 Nov 2013 19:03
Reply
Log builder supply houses have chinking products made for the purpose, made to stay flexible. Robert Chambers book, Log Construction Manual, is the best I've seen for building log. No rocks around to pile up for a footing to keep the wood off the ground?
|
|
Danielcan
Member
|
# Posted: 4 Nov 2013 19:19
Reply
Not much or rocks, it seems to be mostly clay. Im sure i could find some, or Maybe I could haul up some of those garden tiles, you know the ones about two inches thick made of concrete?
Ill look into the real chinking material, but it sounds expensive.
I plan on a bit of an over hang; the inside dimensions should be around six by eight feet.
|
|
Salty Craig
Member
|
# Posted: 4 Nov 2013 19:47
Reply
Danielcan
Methinks you need a helicopter!!
Salty Craig
|
|
Salty Craig
Member
|
# Posted: 4 Nov 2013 20:06
Reply
Danielcan
Looks like a great adventure. Please posts pictures as you build. Where is your place at? I wish you much enjoyment.
Salty Craig
|
|
bldginsp
Member
|
# Posted: 4 Nov 2013 21:47
Reply
Standard practice with log construction is to get the sill logs 18 to 24 inches off the ground. But that's a lot of motorcycle trips. Your sill logs will start to rot within 10 years if they aren't held at least a foot up.
|
|
Truecabin
Member
|
# Posted: 4 Nov 2013 23:14
Reply
i like your project
do you know your trees? if you can find cedar for your foundation logs they could last 30 years with overhang try to get 16 inches min
i see there is water look for cedar there cedar likes wet ground
for the cabin dougfir is good
|
|
|
Truecabin
Member
|
# Posted: 4 Nov 2013 23:22
Reply
i find lots of cedar on the ground in the dirt from logging 15 years ago the wood is mostly good
cedar logs i find not touching dirt maybe on cedar sticks but still laying in leaves and needles for 15 years they are perfect no rot
look around your woods try to notice what wood lasts long
if you can just get it off the ground one brick or rock high and put a roof over it your trapper cabin will be there when you are an old man
|
|
Danielcan
Member
|
# Posted: 4 Nov 2013 23:33
Reply
With all due vagueness, my place is a half hour drive east of the city of Prince George, which is about the dead centre of the western most Canadian province of British Columbia. It is about a ten hour drive north from my home near Vancouver.
The snow should be flying up there by now, so I'll have all winter to get things thought out and in the spring I'll combine it with a bear hunt. And do some scouting for moose.
The second picture is me and the "road" into my place. If you look close you can see my bike in the back ground.
|
|
creeky
Member
|
# Posted: 5 Nov 2013 09:16
Reply
great location and adventure.
always good when you can
park easily and grab a quick
bite.
|
|
Malamute
Member
|
# Posted: 5 Nov 2013 12:18 - Edited by: Malamute
Reply
Calvin Rutstrums book "The Wilderness Cabin" has a good bit of very basic cabin info, including what he called a "trappers tilt" made with the logs tapering all the same way in two walls to give the roof some pitch. Dick Proenkkes book also has some very good pictures of basic cabin construction along with the roof construction in the traditional way.
Are you making it that size because of the availabilty of the roofing material thats there? Thats a very small cabin. Roofs dont have to be complex. The old bush cabins generally used saplings laid over purlins, then bark or clay dirt as a sealer over them, then dirt on top. The modern version in AK seems to be heavy mill plastic sheeting over the saplings, then dirt over that. I understand the plastic needs to be replaced every few years, but its so simple and inexpensive, its not a huge issue. Just shovel the dirt off, replace the plastic and recover with dirt. The low pitch roof helps keep the dirt in place. Raised edges also help in that regard, and would likely need to be replaced at intervals, but the materials are at hand in the woods.
If you cut notches into the tops of any logs it will hold water and rot much faster than if the notches are on the bottom of each piece. Notching isnt nearly as complex as modern "cabins" have and most people assume. Looking at old cabins, most builders were far from master craftsmen. They knew enough to get the job done though, often just from copying what they saw others do in the area.
Regular mortar chinking cracks quite a lot, and as noted, doesnt adhere to the logs. Nails driven into the upper and lower sides of the joint to be chinked help. The old "high tech" chink before the modern manufactured products came along was 1 part portland cement (not concrete), 2 parts gypsum plaster, and 3 parts coarse sawdust. It forms hairline cracks when cured, but it doesnt seem to hurt it much. It is much more stable than mortar, and tough to remove if needed (mortar chinking is pretty easy to remove by comparison). Many used fibergalls insulation torn or cut into strips and packed between the logs to stop any airflow before chinking. doesnt take a lot of fiberglass to do that.
|
|
SubArcticGuy
Member
|
# Posted: 5 Nov 2013 12:44
Reply
You should consider finding a friend with a snowmobile and make a few winter supply runs. I have hauled thousands of pounds of material quite easily by snowmobile. I used a product called Perma-Chink when I built my log sauna. It went on nicely and has been very durable. It sort of feels like an aerated caulking with grit mixed in. I only finished the inside of the sauna and the exterior is unfinished logs...it has weathered very well but I am starting to think about a renovation now and make some changes to it. (Pulling out the wooden floor and dropping it down onto paving stones.
|
|
Mann
Member
|
# Posted: 5 Nov 2013 14:03
Reply
I have bear hunted that area a couple of times.
Absolutely beautiful country and great hunting!
I really want to go back for Moose.
|
|
Danielcan
Member
|
# Posted: 5 Nov 2013 19:38
Reply
Malamute, your right, the cabin is limited by the size of the metal sheet I dig out of the slash pile. I know it's eight feet by at least six, but I'm sure it will be longer. Perhaps much longer, or I might find two. Also, I will be building this thing alone so I want manageable sized logs.
My reasoning for notching into the top of my split foundation logs is to leave my sill logs intact (save for the small step in the side for the floor boards). That way every few years I can prop up one end of my cabin with bottle jacks and replace the foundation logs with new ones, or concret blocks. I want the sill logs to be as structurally sound as possible for that. The idea of the V notch as opposed to a fitted half circle is to facilitate drainage. Perhaps I should line the V notch with some sheet metal??
Subarcticguy
A buddy at work suggested the snowmobile, its just not in keeping with the fun of the build; make due with whats there.
Mann
The amount of bear running around up there is frightening. That's the paramount reason for a solid wall cabin. I considerd just building a frame to cover with tarps when I'm there, but then I bumped a grizzly on my motorcycle and dismissed the idea. Moose are only open for spikes and forks right now, I plan to apply for a Limmited Entery Hunt for cow moose for next year you should too.
Any pointers,or good threads on how to peel old logs?? I'm considering a draw blade????
|
|
Truecabin
Member
|
# Posted: 5 Nov 2013 21:02 - Edited by: Truecabin
Reply
yes drawknife is the only way for old logs
best technique is to look for a young strong guy with long arms and long torso for long pulls on the knife. And short legs so he can grip the log
a nuckle dragger he can carry a lot of moose out too
|
|
davey25
Member
|
# Posted: 5 Nov 2013 21:50
Reply
Ya 6 x8 is too small go 10 x10 you will be much happier...is it possible to cut new logs ? They will have that much less years on them ..cedar for sure for the first few courses..and I would stay away from fibreglass insulation it holds water and will rot your logs...horse hair works well
|
|
leonk
Member
|
# Posted: 6 Nov 2013 09:26 - Edited by: leonk
Reply
Good looking spot.
You don't need to use whole length for the course touching the ground - use short sections of the most rot resistant log you can find, instead of rocks. It'd be as functional and easier to replace.
I'd worry about the logs sliding if you put all tapers to the same end, unless you spike them together well.
One other thing used for 'chinking' is sphagnum moss, I imagine you'd have it in wet BC. Good luck
|
|
Malamute
Member
|
# Posted: 6 Nov 2013 11:28
Reply
Try to look at Dick Proennekes videos and/or book, he handled longer logs by himself. I've done it also.
I'd seriously go for a little larger cabin. As per my previous post, there are alternatives for roofing material, or you could incorporate whats there as part of the roof system, even if there isnt enough to cover a larger place.
As for peeling logs, I suggest an older drawknife. I've used newer ones and older ones, the "antiques" are better tools in my opinion, and cost less when you find a decent deal. I modified mine in a couple ways. The handles are turned too far inward in my opinion, i heated the handle shanks and opened up the handle angle, more like 45*. That keeps your knuckles away from the wood, and allows you to work larger logs. One of mine was also a folding type. That turned out to be more of a nuisance than anything, so I had the folding joint tack welded.
Many seem to use drawknives with the flat of the blade down, I did as well at first. Doing so makes them very hard to sharpen properly, and gives no benefit that I can tell. When having trouble getting a really good edge on my knives I asked an experienced log builder how he sharpened his knives, the first question he asked me was how I used mine. After showing him, he said "turn it over, use the bevel side down, like a chisel is usually used". After the long annoying process of getting a really good edge on it again, I realized that it only took a few minutes with a two sided round stone to keep a true razor edge on it, rather than the hour or more of toil to try to get a good edge when the flat side was worn down. I can shave my arm with mine after 5 minutes on the stone, no problem.
I also use a slight cant to the blade angle (from 90* to the log)when I work, and use a slight sideways slicing motion as I draw it. seems to help get long clean cuts. Getting the work at a height that allows me to straddle the log and just clear it when I stand up allows me to reach forward, arms outstrecthed, then lean back helps make long clean peels. They're often 2-3' long, and take less effort than the common hacking motion using the arms. Watching youtubes of people peeling is painful to watch, the ones I saw were hacking away with short sharp movements using their arms mostly, instead of their whole body. Theres a place for short strokes, but isnt needed for the long sections. Peeling logs will get you in very good shape, though it isnt as bad as many tend to make it. With a razor sharp knike, you can slice through many knots, just dont try to pry with the knife, use the cutting edge to cut through them. I think working knots from the base upwards helps to some degree also, it seems to reduce splintering.
Drawknifed logs have a beauty all their own that no machine can match.
|
|
toyota_mdt_tech
Member
|
# Posted: 6 Nov 2013 12:41 - Edited by: toyota_mdt_tech
Reply
Quoting: Danielcan The snow should be flying up there by now, so I'll have all winter to get things thought out and in the spring I'll combine it with a bear hunt. And do some scouting for moose.
Idea, how about a snomachine to haul in supplies during the winter. Tug a sled behind it, you should be able to haul in loads of gear then. Dig the snow away, store dimensional lumber off the ground, cover with green tarp (to hide it when snow melts). Then ride your bike in there in spring to start the build. You can make many trips in and bring in blocks for your foundation, get it up off the ground.
Just thinking out loud here.
|
|
Danielcan
Member
|
# Posted: 6 Nov 2013 22:54
Reply
Toyota,
My budget for this "trapers tilt" is around $200.oo which should cover a few pounds of spikes, a few pices of lexan for windows, some big hinges for the door, some kind of silicone, and maby some stove pipe if I go that route. Hiring a snowmobile and buying material is just not happening.
Malamute
I'm going to order a few of Calvin Rutstrums books as a previous post suggested, while I'm at it I'll see if I can get proennekes book as well. And thank you for the draw blade instruction. Do you think a hand forged blade would do as well as an antique? I assume you get what you pay for?? (I'm not much for junk stores)
Leonk
You've got me thinking!! How about tire rims?! I'm thinking half way buried standing up right, then just set the sill log in the grove where the tire goes. They are lighter than concrete blocks, and there free!
Has any one ever seen this before?
|
|
davey25
Member
|
# Posted: 6 Nov 2013 23:26
Reply
Watch Marty on mountain men build his cabin..looks pretty good and cheap..
|
|
Danielcan
Member
|
# Posted: 6 Nov 2013 23:28
Reply
For windows I'm thinking small sliding pieces of lexan, about 5" by 12", placed in individual wall logs. I will use my chain saw and make a vertical cut down into the top centre of one of my wall logs that is the desired height of my window. I will do this as I build and that log is exposed from the top. The cut will be lengthways with the log and about two feet long and about an inch from poking through the bottom of the log. In the side of the log I will cut a rectangle about 4" by 8" all the way through the side of the log with one end about two inches from the start of the vertical cut from the top. Into this I will drop my piece of lexan with a small hole drilled near the end, fasten a bolt and nut into the hole of the window for a handle, then continue to build my walls.
Perhaps I should angle the sill of the rectangle on the outside downwards for better run off? And possibly fasten a piece of flashing above the window before the next log for even more protection?
I also plan to have a small door, or hatch if you will, at each end of my tilt. You know, just in case a bear attacks, or I set the thing on fire! For that I plan on big spikes around where the door will be, then when the walls are done cut the hole out with the chain saw.
Thank you for your input.
|
|
silverwaterlady
Member
|
# Posted: 7 Nov 2013 02:08
Reply
Snow machine. Yep, good idea. How are you gonna get to your trap line in the winter without one?
In Alaska building supplies are brought in on a sled in the winter. It's easier because of the rough terrain.
|
|
scout100
Member
|
# Posted: 7 Nov 2013 19:34
Reply
I like the way you adventure, kid.... I am looking to do what your doing soon. Just looking for the land / acres. Being out there alone is fun and peaceful..
|
|
Malamute
Member
|
# Posted: 8 Nov 2013 12:16 - Edited by: Malamute
Reply
Looked at the link, its not bad, they didnt notch the coners, but its functional.
This was one of the suggestions from that page, it looks more like you had in mind. The roof can be smaller poles, with purlins under them to support them., covered in heavy mil plastic sheet and covered with soil, or whatever seemed practical in your site and situation.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqfVL-TyiSw
I'm a big believer in vert generous roof overhangs, and extending the roofline out over the door for a porch. Making the door in a gable and wall, or in the high side wall of the tilt gives this opportunity. Leaving the top wall log longer, and the pole rafters would allow that.
|
|
fpw
Member
|
# Posted: 8 Nov 2013 15:04
Reply
Good luck. Keep in mind that a 10 x 8 cabin is just about the same amount of work as a 12 x 18. Just cutting notches and lifing logs. With a gin pole or a rope you be surprised at what you can move around with just one guy.
I built a 25' x 20' log cabin in an area that you could only access by ATV.
If it is a trappers cabin, leave the bark on, build it on the ground, with someone to help, if you have the trees cut, you can notch it and put up the frame in a few days. Chink with whatever you have.
Trappers cabins were intended to be put on the ground. They don't take much effort and they decay with time. No matter, you don't put too much labor into it.
Jon
|
|
leonk
Member
|
# Posted: 8 Nov 2013 17:15
Reply
Here I located something I read a while ago. I find this pretty good advice.
<<If I were doing what you have in mind, I would consider an 8x12 structure. This would have been a very generous sized trap line cabin. It's a size big enough to be useful shelter, and big enough to have enough clearance between your wood stove and combustible walls. It's not so big as to be impractical for one or two people on a first-time and/or remote build. It could also be a guest cabin or storage shed in the future.
Find a spot that allows water to drain away. Avoid swales or depressions. Avoid or cut down trees that could fall on the cabin. Build it on 6 concrete pads, each pad resting on mineral earth. A 12:12 pitched roof should allow a small loft sleeping or storage place.
Put your door under the gable end of the roof on the 8-foot side. If snow slides off your roof, it won't fall on someone entering or exiting (this can be very dangerous). Place the door on one side of centerline, or the other, so more interior useable wall space is available. Put a window on the other side of centerline.
More windows are at your discretion, but south, east, and west would be best; you could put your bunks on the north wall. Make sure you can put up tight fitting 3/4 inch CDX plywood shutters on your door and windows using hanger bolts, nuts, and fender washers to make it more bear-resistant. If your door is installed to open outward, it will be more bear-resistant.
Place your stove near centerline (but not on centerline) so the chimney pipe and chimney rise to penetrate the ceiling very near the roof ridge line. The chimney will vent better and it will be easier to clean if it's straight all the way up, and mostly contained inside the cabin. If you place the stove near the entry door, make sure the loft and cabin have easy access to egress windows at the opposite side of the cabin.
With the stove near the entry door, you could have two or three wall bunks stacked vertically in the half of the cabin opposite the entry door.
Over-build your roof so you don't have to worry about snow load if you can't get there all winter. I would use 2x12 rafters on not less than 16" centers. Allow the rakes and eaves of your roof two feet of overhang to give better protection from rain to your cabin walls. Cover the roof with 5/8 inch CDX and then cover the whole roof deck with Grace water and ice barrier. Cover that with metal roofing. The Grace product covering your entire roof with metal on top is a solution that will not easily leak.>>
|
|
|
