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mjmmessina
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# Posted: 12 Nov 2013 23:50 - Edited by: mjmmessina
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I currently use a ventless propane heater for heat in my off grid hunting cabin but I'm thinking of going to a vented option. I'm tired of the smell and need to provide fresh air for safety. Has anyone used one of these and what are your experiences?
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200362081_200362081
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 13 Nov 2013 00:01
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We have the 18K model. It works well. The housewarmers are made by Empire, just a simpler stripped down version. No remote thermostat, boxy look, but they work fine. One nice thing is they can be used w/o a fan or with the optional fan.
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Dillio187
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# Posted: 13 Nov 2013 08:13
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I have the same one as Don. Other than being annoying to light at times (most direct vent ones are) it's great.
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toofewweekends
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# Posted: 13 Nov 2013 20:49
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http://www.rural-energy.net/catalog/products/productdetail.php?pro_id=289
We've used this HomComfort model, very similar I'd say, for 2 years without any trouble. No electric needed. It does not have a fan, but we put one of those little non-electric wood stove fans on the top grill and move some warm air around.
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groingo
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# Posted: 14 Nov 2013 22:38
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Using a ventless heater myself I can understand the frustration at the smell, but I have found that can be as simple as the brand of Propane which can vary in quality, recently I bought some from Cenex which I noticed immediately the flame had a lot of yellow in it and smelled, so I hooked up my other tank which had fuel from Dells supply (made sure not the same supplier) and it burns odor free and solid blue flame.
In your case if that isn't the problem it could be any number of things from the burner to who knows, so I would agree if in doubt pipe it out...go with the vented but always keep a window cracked no matter what unless you are bringing air directly from the outside to the heater.
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Fanman
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# Posted: 11 Dec 2013 19:34
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The problem with ventless heaters is that they burn not only the propane fuel, but anything else (dust, pet dander, etc.) floating in the air. Clean burning propane produces only CO2 and water vapor, yes, but what about the other stuff? I wouldn't use one in my house or cabin.
I have two of the direct vent 7500BTU heaters in the back bedrooms of my house. They work great, are silent, and continue working during our frequent power outages.
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creeky
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# Posted: 12 Dec 2013 09:24
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I've recently installed two of the new DV14s. They go in pretty easy and they certainly make a difference. My outhouse is 9 degrees C this morning while the outside temp is -19.
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200590096_200590096
has them on sale and shipping is reasonable.
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ATB
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# Posted: 12 Dec 2013 12:22
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how much less moisture is produced w vented?
I have the big buddy 18000 btu and that makes a ton dampness in my 12x16 w loft place
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 12 Dec 2013 13:36
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one gallon of burned propane = 25 ounces of water as vapor
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ATB
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# Posted: 12 Dec 2013 14:50
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Quoting: MtnDon one gallon of burned propane = 25 ounces of water as vapor
Is that any different/less with a vented propane heater?
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 12 Dec 2013 16:23
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The water vapor is produced when the propane is burned. Always. Doesn't matter if the propane was burned in a vented heater, a non vented heater or a puddle on the floor.
But the chimney vent of the vented type of heater carries the water vapor outside along with the rest of the exhaust. That is what makes the difference. Another difference is that the direct vent heaters also draw air from the outside not the inside.
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creeky
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# Posted: 19 Dec 2013 13:25
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Monday night it hit -35 here. that's pretty much the same F or C.
I am heating one of my outbuildings, also known as the "shizzer shack" this winter. Here is a picture of the moisture from the vented propane heater on the outside of the building after one night.
imagine that moisture inside your home.
The picture was taken at dawn. It had warmed up to -30.
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Nirky
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# Posted: 19 Dec 2013 15:33
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Quoting: Fanman burning propane produces only CO2 and water vapor
Only in the presence of excess oxygen, that is, added oxygen, more than in normal atmosphere.
Burning in normal atmosphere, which is the environment in which all cabin propane heaters exist, the propane combustion process produces CO2 + CO + H2O. CO, carbon monoxide, is toxic. That's why it can be very dangerous to operate an unvented heater.
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jkycia
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# Posted: 20 Dec 2013 00:46
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Just wondering. What is the size of the propane tank you are using? At that cold temperature (-35), do you find that it can provide gas fast enough?
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 20 Dec 2013 01:54 - Edited by: MtnDon
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Quoting: Nirky Only in the presence of excess oxygen, that is, added oxygen, .... .... .... Burning in normal atmosphere, which is the environment in which all cabin propane heaters exist, the propane combustion process produces CO2 + CO + H2O.
I'd like to see some documentation to back up that statement.
Quality propane, and for that matter natural gas fueled furnaces, heaters, stoves, etc all have adjustments. Adjustments with the fuel supply, such as smaller or larger orifices (jets) or adjustments to the inflow of air that is mixed with the fuel gas prior to combustion. If the orifice (jet) is properly sized for the elevation and the air adjustment if present, is set correctly combustion of the fuel gas will be complete and there will not be any CO produced.
Reference...
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creeky
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# Posted: 21 Dec 2013 18:47
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jkycia: because of the cold I use 100 lb propane tanks.
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Fanman
Member
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# Posted: 24 Dec 2013 20:16
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Quoting: MtnDon ...all have adjustments. Adjustments with the fuel supply, such as smaller or larger orifices (jets) or adjustments to the inflow of air that is mixed with the fuel gas prior to combustion. If the orifice (jet) is properly sized for the elevation and the air adjustment if present, is set correctly combustion of the fuel gas will be complete and there will not be any CO produced.
Correct... up to a point. _IF_ they're properly adjusted, and clean, etc. Most modern ventless heaters have CO2 detectors which will shut them off so that's probably not really an issue, but the other combustion byproducts are what I worry about.
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 24 Dec 2013 20:36 - Edited by: MtnDon
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Quoting: Fanman have CO2 detectors which will shut them off
I agree; if the appliances are correctly adjusted is a big factor.
I believe what many ventless heaters have is an oxygen depletion sensor. That shuts things off if the oxygen level drops too much. Before that happens though, you could still be breathing CO and any other noxious by products from whatever. CO is the big worry, not CO2. We're breathing CO2 anytime we take a breath from the air around us.
I'm not now nor ever have defended or promoted the use of ventless heaters, lamps, etc. I was disagreeing with the idea expressed in a now deleted post, that claimed that CO was being produced any time propane was being burned. It isn't necessarily so, though we should err on the side of caution.
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tex
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# Posted: 27 Dec 2013 12:47
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We have a 12'x9' x 10' high cabin. Lots of windows, and will be fully insulated this spring. Looking for a practical; safe and efficient option for heating the cabin.
The fireplaces (older type) seemed from my experience/test in the garage to be smoky. Always leaking smoke. And I a small cabin like ours would be a big waste of installation of such a unit.
I also think the smaller (wood stoves) would be overkill. Looking for a Mr. Heat/ Buddy or similar that would maintain even heat on overnights during cold/chilly visits.
I have a small heat buddy now which works fine; for cooler visits, but would not provide the needs for colder/wintertime overnights.
Beyond all the talk about moister etc. which to me is irrelevant; due to the basic cabin concept - maybe a minor inconvenience but easily resolved each visit by opened up a window during the day for a half an hour. We do not keep our best linen or clothes etc. there so ...
Looking at oil heaters now. But; maybe if someone can think outside the box here; they could give us the "best" practical way to heat up our tiny cabin.
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MI drew
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# Posted: 27 Dec 2013 23:46 - Edited by: MI drew
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Well here's my setup. It's a ProCom blue flame. It's 99% efficient and has a oxygen depletion sensor. I have 2 CO detectors in the cabin. One of them that will give instant readings and I have not had it even register the littlest amount. Now I have only had it going through hunting week so far but will be up there all next week and will report back. I really didn't mind the little extra moisture in the air... didn't wake up with a dry mouth etc.
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creeky
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# Posted: 6 May 2014 09:17
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I've installed three vented propane heaters now. Very easy install and the CO 2 and moisture are not a problem.
One tip for starting is patience. It can take 5 minutes for the gas to get flowing to light the pilot. It helps if the wife comes by and says, "what's taking so long?" Now try the ignitor.  Well it worked for me.
That story is a tough one. My gas/Co detector was 50 bucks.
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hinterland
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# Posted: 16 May 2014 20:40
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We use the Williams Direct Vent 30,000 BTU in a log cabin. It's on the wall in what is considered the porch area. Not built of logs, attached to the main cabin which is built of logs. But it is insulated. The furnace is set to come on with cabin temperature drops below 12 degrees C. The winters are cold, often 45 below zero. The little baby keeps the water tank from freezing and the canned goods in the cupboard. The water tank is a poly tank which is filled with a hose attached to the pump in summer and in winter, with jugs hauled from town. The poly tank is in the same room at the Williams heater. Very happy with it, only wish it was installed a few years earlier, sure makes the mornings not so brutal while lighting the wood stove.
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