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robmorin
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# Posted: 20 Aug 2015 08:29 - Edited by: robmorin
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Hello all, my first post, so be gentle... 
Some background...
I bought 4 acres of land in Quebec, in a town called Notre Dame du laus, about 75 mins north of Ottawa, I'm from Montreal.
Finally after a few tries I finally got my permits for a small cabin, garage, shed. The legal min square footage for a cabin/chalet is 400 sq feet, but i modified a plan of a single 16'x20' cabin to create two of them connected together with a small hallway , hence one structure and my square footage is now well over the 400 min
So now my dilemma is creating the footings/piers. I wanted to build concrete piers with no mix fast drying concrete, but after some research i found out that no mix fast drying concrete might not be structurally sound for a cabin and is more for fence posts, plus i wanted to use non potable water from the lake and was told , that the water has to be potable for concrete.
I was also told that i could use helical piles, but this would cost me $3000 Canadian for 6 piers vs about $1500 for the 9 concrete piers i would need for the cabin. So my options are now, mixing my own cement for these concrete piers or get a truck to come in and fill them up. I do not have any power at this land yet or water. If i want to mix myself i would need a more powerful generator than my current 4500 watts. And i figure getting a truck that far in my land would be difficult and expense to do.
So in the end my questions is, what are my options for another type of foundation/footing/pier? Blocks, Diamond Pier?
The ground type is about 6 inches soil and then sand as far down as one could see... my deepest hole i dug was 5 feet and it was all sand still...
Any Suggestions?
Thanks to all and have a great day!
Rob Morin
Montreal, Canada
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Steve_S
Member
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# Posted: 20 Aug 2015 09:04
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The meaning of using "Potable Water" for concrete is that it should be clean and clear to the point that it is drinkable. Essentially "contaminant free" also meaning "Salt Free" for those seaside.
You can use rain, lake, river, creek water without issues. If it's muddy / stirred up, let it settle, it has to be "clear water". I have used rain & creek water for making up concrete, including slabs and no issues ever.
Concrete trucks will deliver "minimums" and a few piers likely won't be enough so it could get expensive. BUT certainly call around to local concrete companies, you likely have a Lafarge Concrete there or closeby. (For those not local, Lafarge is a large concrete company with many mixing sites). BTW: For 3K you could pour a full Floating Concrete Slab for a 16x20.
NB: A loaded concrete truck is seriously heavy... YES I know it's obvious but what isn't... IF it get's stuck on your property while it's delivery, it's on your pocket book to get it out... This is NOT a lesson that you or your pocket book will want ! IF your contemplating having concrete delivered consider the road / driveway (path).
The piers will certainly have to be below frost line (4 feet) but the soil may dictate deeper as you indicate your on a sand base.
Alternately you could set 6x6 Pressure Treated Rails/Skids on 24"x24" cottage blocks on a prepped site (cleared and covered over with packed gravel extending 2' out from bldg. side). You could then move the cabin at a later date if you want to build bigger/better and still have it as a Bunkie or "man cave".
~tip~ Check around with local rental shops, home depot & lowes too for rental gas powered cement mixers... They are bigger and more unwieldy BUT there are advantages to it when power isn't there for electric mixers. Get the Price Lists for those handy to your build site.
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robmorin
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# Posted: 20 Aug 2015 11:38
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Thanks for the info Steve...
The block thing sounds great, but we do have a 24" min off the ground regulation in that town, not sure if that would still be a viable solution?
I would like to try and avoid using any vertical posts if possible if you know what i mean... Plus it would be nice to be able to crawl under to finish up any drains or piping at a later date so 24" would benefit me there.
Thanks again..
Rob Morin
Montreal, Canada
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Don_P
Member
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# Posted: 20 Aug 2015 20:00
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Take a look at permanent wood foundations as well, no concrete, Pressure treated foundation walls sitting on a gravel trench footing.
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DaveBell
Moderator
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# Posted: 20 Aug 2015 21:11 - Edited by: DaveBell
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Sounds like you need to do concrete piers below the frost line and 2' above grade. You could use those Quik-Tube with bags of concrete, mix onsite with the clear lake water. You don't have to do all of them at once.
Potable means you can drink it. Like Steve said above, it just needs to be clear. No mud, no leaf matter, no salt.
Layout your pier plan with string, and start digging. Look at Google Images for how to lay out piers.
Draw something like this and have it approved before starting. Look at Simpson Strong Ties for Piers before beginning.
The Quik-Tube needs to extend below the frost line and 2' above grade for your local code. Visit your local building code approval folks, they probably can help.
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CORNEDBEEF
Member
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# Posted: 23 Aug 2015 09:18
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Rob,
I'm in VT and am planning my own small cabin build very soon. I am thinking of skipping the concrete all together and building on skids. If you're soil is all sand as you say, all you really need to do is keep that soil around your cabin DRY, and it will never frost heave. If you're soils are sandy, then they are well draining. Basically taking the ideas for a frost protected shallow foundation and applying them to a cabin, and skipping the concrete. Check this out: http://www.homeinnovation.com/~/media/Files/Reports/Revised-Builders-Guide-to-Frost-P rotected-Shallow-Foundations.pdf
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paqcrewmama
Member
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# Posted: 24 Aug 2015 19:06
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We're having to pour proper footings for our cabin. Previous owner chose to pour really crappy (and hence failing) piers or none at all. I can't necessarily speak to "potable" other than to confirm what the others said. I can tell you that mixing the concrete mix by hand wasn't hard. We had to pour footings for the porch this past week but could only do one at a time (only had one jack capable of supporting the porch weight safely in our opinion) so bringing in a truck wasn't an option not to mention it was a lot more expensive. We're doing as much DIY to save money and/or put money into things we're not comfortable doing ourselves like the roof work.
We used a large double-wheeled wheel barrow that easily held two 60 lb bags of the Quik crete concrete mix (the one used for piers/footings). We mixed with a hoe and shoveled it in, using an old broken shovel handle to agitate the concrete to remove air and settle it. The 8" sonitube took 3-4 bags, the 10" tube took 4-5 bags. Again, it took only a few minutes to mix so I wouldn't consider a larger generator to run a mixer. I would seriously consider mixing your own by hand.
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dads2vette
Member
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# Posted: 11 Sep 2015 11:50
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It doesn't hurt to check with the locals as well. They can deliver a wealth of information.
Just for comparison, I was brought up near Buffalo, NY and had 4' deep footing levels that had to be 2 foot wide and 12" deep. In Arizona I was told the depth of the footer was 6 inches but had to be 12" deep from there and only a foot wide. Much easier to hand dig, thank you!
Dave
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