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rachelsdad
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# Posted: 25 May 2025 06:30pm - Edited by: rachelsdad
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I had previously charged all 4 to 100 percent prior to bringing them to camp and hooking them to the combo inverter charger.
Everything was fine, all lights on panels for charging, inverter pumped 110 to camp....llights worked....yippeee....LiFe was good
Before I left I turn off inverter and main breaker in camp. Wasn't able to get back up for three weeks and when I went up yesterday no ac, no lights on inverter or Charge panel. No sign of puffy or damage.
Ok, I hooked up a Chevy volt battery and everything lit up fine.
Checked the BMS and all 4 said standby,
Ok....BMS went to sleep?
I didn't have a multimeter but BMS has 27 volts.
I've read you can jump them to wake them up.
Can I just bring my lithium charger and give all 4 a jolt?? Assuming I have to disconnect from CC
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 25 May 2025 06:49pm - Edited by: MtnDon
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EDIT: I added this to my OP, below. I am not sure but the fact that the LiTime went into what they call standby could mean the cell voltages have fallen too low, from what I nust googled. I don't believe that should happen in only a month or two though. Anyhow best of luck, hopefully a charge remedies the issue
My OP...... Is it bluetooth equipped for an app? Many lithium batteries have the bluetooth go to sleep after some programmed interval of no activity to stop the bluetooth from draining the cells. Usually a charge current with turn the bluetooth back on. A discharge may also wake the bluetooth; that can vary between brands. All that should be mentioned in the user manual.
Watch out for some smart chargers though. Some chargers will not work if they do not sense voltage from the battery.
Bluetooth going to sleep is not the same as the BMS going to sleep or standby. My LFP BMS will not go dormant or totally shutdown unless I tell it to. Others might vary.. However my battery bluetooth does go to sleep after 8 hours of no use.
Check your user manual. I hope this might help you some.
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 25 May 2025 06:54pm - Edited by: MtnDon
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Quoting: rachelsdad Assuming I have to disconnect from CC
There should be no reason to need to do that. Any charge sources can usually be used together.
FYI, most, maybe all, Victron solar chargers remember the voltage of the last time they were connected to a battery. So they would always be capable of waking a BMS.
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Brettny
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# Posted: 25 May 2025 08:22pm
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You must have left some type of load on if you changed over to another battery and the whole system started up.
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FishHog
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# Posted: 26 May 2025 06:49am
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Quoting: Brettny You must have left some type of load on
Sure sounds like it. Hopefully they just shut down due to low voltage and will wake up when charged.
Many have used 9v batteries to wake up sleeping cells. Not sure what voltage yours are, but may need a few in series. There are lots of explanations on this if you google it, but I'm not sure that is your issue.
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paulz
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# Posted: 26 May 2025 10:17am - Edited by: paulz
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Quoting: FishHog Many have used 9v batteries to wake up sleeping cells
That has worked for me on tool lithiums. Haven’t tried a lifepo4
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gcrank1
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# Posted: 26 May 2025 12:08pm - Edited by: gcrank1
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Ive taken any handy 12v LA to give a quick flash and mine woke right up.
I have to wonder if they were not actually at 100% .....maybe some 'runner' cells hit top v first and it reported 100% when the basic pack was less?
Hope Steve_S comes around.
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rachelsdad
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# Posted: 26 May 2025 07:54pm - Edited by: rachelsdad
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I used a LiTime charger prior to bringing them north, they were atv100 per the charger and BMS.
24 volt batteries.
I had turned off main breaker in cabin and inverter when I left...sure wish I had a multimeter with me.
If I were to "flah" could I use one of the 24v Volt batteries and do I need to do 3ach individually?
Won't get back up until Friday
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gcrank1
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# Posted: 26 May 2025 10:21pm
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Iirc what you need to do as a flash/wake up is use a voltage at least a bit higher than the low voltage disconnect of the bat bms.
If you check the voltage of each battery perhaps one is high enough to become the jump start?
A bat bank is only as strong as its weakest battery. Maybe you have a dog that went into LVD and deactivated the bank?
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rachelsdad
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# Posted: 27 May 2025 02:57am
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Thanks all. Let you know Friday!
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FishHog
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# Posted: 27 May 2025 03:06pm
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yes, you want just overvoltage. So in your case 3 x 9v batteries should work if you don't have another option.
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Atlincabin
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# Posted: 29 May 2025 02:43pm
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I had a similar problem, when my batteries arrived they were apparently in protection mode. Put three 9v batteries in series, touched to battery (in parallel) and that got things started. Mine are LiTime 24V batteries. Have not had it go back into protection mode since. Nothing in the (minimal) manual says anything about this.
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Nobadays
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# Posted: 29 May 2025 04:04pm
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Quoting: Atlincabin I had a similar problem, when my batteries arrived they were apparently in protection mode.
Same. I emailed LiTime and was told just put a charger on them. It worked.
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 29 May 2025 06:40pm
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The problem some people run into is when they have a "smart" charger that refuses to charge when it senses no voltage at the battery terminals. That is why a bump with a battery of some sort (with a high enough voltage) is needed to wake the BMS up.
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gcrank1
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# Posted: 29 May 2025 06:56pm
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If I have this right....the 'smarts' in the bat wont necessarily read correctly for 100% of charge until they have actually fully cycled a few times, and even then Ive read that it is still an 'educated guess' by the bat because voltage is a poor way to determine the soc of LFP, or even LA.....but we all come at this from LA so we tend to default to thinking that way.
Fwiw, I know (but cant document it) that my 2x 100ah LFP's got better over time and this season are really rocking'. I did tend to cycle them lightly....
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rachelsdad
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# Posted: 30 May 2025 02:55am - Edited by: rachelsdad
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Same here, then I brought them up to camp and all was fine.
Then they sat with no draw for 3+ weeks.
I'm heading up this morning w.my LiTime charger.
I have four connected, would I just ht the main positive and negative or each battery individually?
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Steve_S
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# Posted: 30 May 2025 05:56am
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@Gcrank1 and others...
Voltage is the ONLY way to determine SOC with Lithium Based cells. That left over thinking from Lead Acid is plain & simply WRONG ! One must forget what applied to those chemistries and move on with reality and ignore the FUD which also includes a pile of FUD due to ignorance and refusla to accept the realities.
There simply is no other way to determine SOC, you will NOT be testing the Acid/Gravity or any other such idiotic thing. Voltage does indeed "Tell All" but you have to know what you are looking at and understand the process of how the Depth of Charge works (IE Saturating the battery pack in with Absorb and then Floating till full topped & balanced.
The batteries need to see 24+V at the terminals to wake up the BMS from rest mode (LiTime docs = suck and near useless). You will have to reactivate each pack and that "may" require you to disconnect them from the bank. You can safely use 24V to 29V to wake up the BMS' without issues for a 24V Battery Pack (NOT 2x12V is series !!!)
The LiTime batteries for the past 2 years +/- have been quite good, reliable & consistent from all reports by our folks on DIYSolar. User Manuals are a complaint point which is an easy fix but ? for some reason they haven't fixed that. 3x 9V Alkaline should do it just fine as a wake up jolt.
IF you have an Inverter/Charger, you can hook up genny to that and put it into Charge Mode and have it wake up the batteries. Some Solar Controllers can also do it IF they do not need to see Batt Voltage on startup... ie: has a fixed Voltage Setting so that they know what battery voltage they are connected to. NOT ALL can do that, many require the batteries to be hot so they can read the voltage on startup, like my Midnite Classics.
I have No Personal Experience with LiTime but have read a lot about them on DIYS and there are numerous vids on Youtube about them too. They do behave very similarly to others with the basic procedures etc.
IF you have a separate Solar Controller that charges the batteries, leave that ON and connected to Batt's even when away but shut off Inverter/Charger when away (unless you must have it on for something) and that batteries will remain charged & topped up which causes NO HARM AT ALL provided the charge is within the Parameters. You can leave them floating at 27.2V (3.400vpc) forever and they'll be happy. AIO's most often do not allow for the Inverter/Charger to be "off" leaving only the SCC part running. This is a primary reason I never suggested AIO's for Part-Time remote places because you cannot just have the SCC doing Battery Maintenance mode.
Hope it helps, Good Luck.
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FishHog
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# Posted: 30 May 2025 07:38am
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Quoting: Steve_S IF you have a separate Solar Controller that charges the batteries, leave that ON and connected to Batt's even when away but shut off Inverter/Charger when away (unless you must have it on for something) and that batteries will remain charged & topped up which causes NO HARM AT ALL provided the charge is within the Parameters. You can leave them floating at 27.2V (3.400vpc) forever and they'll be happy. AIO's most often do not allow for the Inverter/Charger to be "off" leaving only the SCC part running. This is a primary reason I never suggested AIO's for Part-Time remote places because you cannot just have the SCC doing Battery Maintenance mode.
Agree with all this, with the exception if your place is below freezing in the winter. I drain mine down to 50-60% charge and disconnect everything. They lose a little over longterm storage, but still at a happy state when I arrive back.
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Steve_S
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# Posted: 30 May 2025 09:16am
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Reminder, I am near Algonquin Park Ontario where we get -35C/-31F and 30cm+/1' snowfalls as a matter of course in winter and that's just typical for us.
Virtually all SmartBMS' will prevent charging of batteries that are below 0C/32F, sometimes a bit higher temp like 2C/35F. Batteries can still output full power below those temps, just can't charge.
A respectable Solar Charge Controller can also be programmed to not charge below 0C... My Midnites unfortunately are too old (generationally) for that capability but the newer Victrons can do so as can others. Some even have the ability to do limited (lower amp) charge from 0C to 5C at which it can step up to full capability, all of which is software programmable. * This is not just within the controller itself.
YES, one must have the right gear for the "working environment" to do exactly what it is supposed to for exactly the reasons that our friend HishHog stated. You really do not want to charge LFP below 0C, it will not end well !
A Gotcha or Catch !
These days, a lot of battery companies are aware of these issues and make battery packs with self-heating that will keep a battery pack at 5C/41F allowing them to accept Full Charge Amps. LiTime has several battery packs with that capability and even more, but it all depends on the model/version which of course all costs $.
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paulz
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# Posted: 30 May 2025 10:07am - Edited by: paulz
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Quoting: Steve_S 35C/-31F and
Brrrrr! Not my situation, living in a tropical paradise as I do, lol, but I have to wonder, as every lithium designer does, why they can put out at low temps but not take in.
My biggest issue is all these spare tariff worry LFPs I bought hogging up my under bed space.
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rachelsdad
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# Posted: 30 May 2025 12:23pm
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Thanks all. I brought my lithium charger and it registered 1% charge after a few minutes.
I hooked it up to the CC and everything went on. Same w.
2nd battery, now jumpingbthird...run charger for 2 minutes...
Then I thought....I never changed charge settings!!!!
Absorb was 24!!! I've set to 28.8.
Should I take all batteries back home and charge to 100% and then reinstall or can I let CC do it?
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rachelsdad
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# Posted: 30 May 2025 12:27pm
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All 4 are at 25.2 after a couple minutes on chsrger
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rachelsdad
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# Posted: 30 May 2025 12:41pm
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3 batteries Cc and inverter working
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rachelsdad
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# Posted: 30 May 2025 12:48pm - Edited by: rachelsdad
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4th getting jumped
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Steve_S
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# Posted: 30 May 2025 01:02pm - Edited by: Steve_S
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28.8V is 3.600VPC and TOO HIGH ! Charging at that rate, regardless of cell quality used will result in having some cells reach High Volt Disconnect thereby hampering the charge and leaving an unbalanced state (see harm).
I see you have a Midnite Controller: Please refer to this post that covers them, the quirks & settings.
https://diysolarforum.com/threads/steve_s-tech-my-final-config-for-midnite-classic-sc c-jkbms-w-large-bank-works-amazingly-well-includes-charge-profile-bms-config.42549/
See Attachment for proper settings for SCC and Inverter CHARGER or other advanced external charger.
LFP charge-settings 12-24-48V
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rachelsdad
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# Posted: 30 May 2025 01:11pm
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Should I set EQq To 0
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rachelsdad
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# Posted: 30 May 2025 01:13pm
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Oh and THANK YOU for everything Steve..
You're the best
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rachelsdad
Member
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# Posted: 30 May 2025 01:15pm
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Cloudy day......
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Steve_S
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# Posted: 30 May 2025 01:31pm
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The setting are obviously the same as I use with my Classic 200 & 150 and very closely match for the Victron & other SCC's I've deployed... damned terms vary a bit by maker though...
NEVER EVER Equalize Lithium Batts !
It is very important to use the EndAmps to determine transition from Absorb to Float. These values are discussed with the linked post @ DIYS above. BTW, a WizBangJr is the best way to use that as it is quite accurate.
As a side note, I am typically in float by 11:00-12:00 on a typical sunny day. All packs in the bank (6x280AH / 51kWh) are usually within 0.005mv difference within 30 minutes after entering float right across the bank.
A separate side point.
1 Pack are 2018 V1 "Bulk Grade: cells.
1 pack is 2019 V1 "B-Grade" cells.
1 pack is 2019 & 2020 V2 "B-Grade" N & K Series (my franken-pack)
2 Packs are V3 A-Grade Matched & Batched cells
1 Pack V3 A-Grade standard Voltage Matched.
They ALL behave well with only notable differences when at or below 15C Temp when the first 3 (V1 & V2 cells) tend to charge slower. The newest V3 cells are more efficient. These are all EVE Brand Cells which is Top Tier (4th) Manufacturer. Odds are the LiTime cells in your packs are also EVE or possibly Hithium (#5 manufacturer).
Irony is, I can get the cells & gear so much cheaper now than even a year ago thanks to the slowed US market making more available for the rest of us. Sorry, can't ship to US as Country of Origin is still China so DumbDumb Tax applies. I also do not do battery systems anymore as I retired the business as my health is increasingly getting worse and I'll likely not last too much longer... I'm way past by Best Before date and time is pretty much up.
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rachelsdad
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# Posted: 30 May 2025 01:32pm
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Eq will not drop below 27.5....
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