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Small Cabin Forum / Off-Grid Living / Digging Outhouse; Hit water a lot
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turkeyboyslim
Member
# Posted: 13 Jul 2019 16:16
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So at just over 4' I hit water, a lot of water, it flowed it. I scooped it all out and it filled right back up. I then left to go to the hardware store to get a post-hole digger since it was getting too deep for my shovel. came back and the water level is higher then when I first hit water. threes a good foot or so of water and it seems to flow in as soon as I remove any.

Is it possible I hit a vein of a spring? I'm wondering If this were to be a spring how do I proceeded if i want to collect water from it, and obviously move my outhouse to another area.
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DaveBell
Member
# Posted: 13 Jul 2019 16:25
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Is this the place in Vermont, hills and rocks from the other pics you posted?

turkeyboyslim
Member
# Posted: 13 Jul 2019 16:42
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Yes this is Vermont, North East corner, 2000ft + in elevation

DaveBell
Member
# Posted: 13 Jul 2019 16:42
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Looks like you have only 1 foot of water, but nice self dug well. I see sandy soil, not much clay. Pump the water out and keep digging. You want to install a black culvert pipe with lockable cap. My guess about 8 feet long, with about 1-2 feet exposed above ground.

Diameter depends on how much water you need and the refill rate. Come up with a design before you proceed. Congrats, water on a property is good. Also find out the distance the outhouse needs to be from the well. Maybe 20+ feet and downhill from the well.

DaveBell
Member
# Posted: 13 Jul 2019 16:45
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Cover it up and start working on a well use design.

DaveBell
Member
# Posted: 13 Jul 2019 16:54
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I found a guy installing a black culvert pipe well on the internet but can't find it now.

turkeyboyslim
Member
# Posted: 13 Jul 2019 17:05
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Thanks for the input, what exactly is entailed in a well use design?
What is the best tool to keep digging down? Should I just be using a post-hole digger?

DaveBell
Member
# Posted: 13 Jul 2019 17:51
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Quoting: turkeyboyslim
well use desig

You have a bunch of options. How to pump out water? Where to pump it to? How far is well from cabin?

There has been some discussion here on pumping water from lake. 120Vac, 12Vdc, laying underground pipe. Water storage. Solar. Are you there permanent of only on occasion?

Here is one scenario. You take 2 or 3 seven gallon portable water tanks to the well with an ATV or truck. Using 12v power source and a 12V pump, and water safe hose, you fill up the containers, and take the water to cabin. Put plain bleach in the water to kill bacteria and you got water. Bleach/water ratio on internet. Start designing parts and use and post it for review here.

DaveBell
Member
# Posted: 13 Jul 2019 17:53
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Might as well stop digging, cover up the hole, and work on design that fits you and your place. You are so lucky to find that water.

turkeyboyslim
Member
# Posted: 13 Jul 2019 18:37
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Thanks for the info. I'll do some searching on youtube for the best pipes and components to use.
My property already has a cistern that I've done some rough ghetto plumbing on when I bought it. But the cistern isn't at an ideal location and it looks like it may not provide enough water for constant use, and it's not safe to drink from what I gather, thought it could probably be boiled.
I use it for shower/brushing teeth and clothes washing.
I've ran 100 foot of cheap black plastic water line, then i built a small box where a 12v pump and Marine Battery sit, along with a fuse and toggle switch. a 3-way tee with one end being a faucet, and the other end of the tee heading to my outdoor shower. The system obviously will not be functional in the winter.

It's hard to design a system without knowing how much water flow I'll get and how often it will dry up. I will probably start with something very basic like food-grade safe PVC to a faucet aided by 12v pump, or maybe I'll look into a hand pump. I'll post more info as I get further along.

I guess another question is how do I seal around the perimeter of the hole? when I get my pipe in there do I Just pour concrete around the surface or is there a better way?
Since I've dug the hole with a shovel by hand it's not a perfect circle so any pipe isn't going to fit snugly without leaving gaps.

old243
Member
# Posted: 13 Jul 2019 21:09
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If you could get a backhoe , to your site. I would go with a much larger plastic or concrete culvert. depending if there is rock down deeper, I would go as deep as the hoe could dig. This will give you a larger volume of water to draw from. There are lots of dug wells in our area. 3or 4 foot in diameter. and up to 20 feet deep. Fill area around the culvert with clear 3/4 inch stone. Then clay at the top to seal . Grade clay so water doesn't pond around the area. Monitor your small hole to get an idea of how much water flow you can expect. Good luck. old243

mj1angier
Member
# Posted: 14 Jul 2019 07:37
Reply 


This might work for you:
http://waterbuckpump.com/2015/06/26/diy-sand-point-well/

paulz
Member
# Posted: 14 Jul 2019 10:03
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Sheesh, I've been poking around my place for 10 years hoping to hit water.

turkeyboyslim
Member
# Posted: 14 Jul 2019 11:02 - Edited by: turkeyboyslim
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http://www.colebrookrental.com/equipment-rentals-u-hauls/

So this place isn't too far of a drive, rent heavy equipment. Would the small excavator, or backhoe be better for digging my well out, and i'll also be digging trenches to lay 2 6x6x19 and 2 6x6x13 for my 10x16 cabin's gravel retaining wall.

How hard is it to use these machines if you've never used them and know nothing about them? Are there a lot of safety concerns?

Thnx for any advice.

turkeyboyslim
Member
# Posted: 14 Jul 2019 11:12
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Quoting: DaveBell
Is this the place in Vermont, hills and rocks from the other pics you posted?


I was just going through my posts and I realized the pics you were referring to was not the property I'm on now. That one got bought out quick and it was a little out of my price range anyways.

Here is a pic of the property I settled on.
DSC_0010.JPG
DSC_0010.JPG


DaveBell
Member
# Posted: 14 Jul 2019 17:17
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Quoting: turkeyboyslim
How hard is it to use these machines if you've never used them and know nothing about them? Are there a lot of safety concerns?


I rented a Deere 310 backhoe after studying youtube videos and the user manual online. I needed to both dig and move dirt. From now on I'm renting the excavator. Lower center of gravity. I almost tipped it over moving a monster stump.

They are fun to use but can be very dangerous if you are not careful. What is the most important part of a heavy machine? The Seat Belt. I was working on the side of a mountain.

Look up Andrew Camarata on Youtube and watch all his videos on using and maintaining heavy equipment. There are others like LetsDig but they don't explain chit.

My rental place in WV will rent a tank to a teenager because they want the money. The rental places in VA want you to have a license. The WV rental place also delivers and picks up for $100.

I don't know what your rental place will do.

Go visit them with pen and paper and just chat with them. Write down the model of the excavator and see if you can find a user manual online. You defiantly want to know what controls do so you don't break it. The excavator will probably be easier to use than the backhoe.

Look at what you want to do and think up a plan. Such as digging the dirt and placing it on the low side of the hill. No hill? Where will you place the dirt you dig up? How much dirt do you need to save for back fill?

Make sure the machine has sharp pointed teeth. You only dig 6 inches at a time. The digging power is pulling the bucket towards you and curling the bucket up.

So rent it for a weekend and have fun. What else needs to be done while you have the machine there?

Go SLOW until you get used to the controls and movements.

I do not see your plan yet. Are you going to need to make a trench for pipe?

Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance.

DaveBell
Member
# Posted: 14 Jul 2019 17:23
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Send me the address of the property and I'll try to find a topo map. davesc58@verizon.net

DaveBell
Member
# Posted: 14 Jul 2019 17:28
Reply 


The Monster.
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turkeyboyslim
Member
# Posted: 14 Jul 2019 17:29
Reply 


Thanks again Dave for all the considerations.
Figuring out what model they offer and downloading an owner manual is a good idea. Good to know they have seat belts, one of my dad's friend got killed after being thrown from a machine from it tipping forward while the front end came down too fast. I don't remember what exact machine it was, maybe front end loader, but it threw him and he landed head first and died later.

Still not sure an exact plan but I'm thinking I'll go with a system not attached to anything, when I need water I'll fetch it from the well site. Been watching some guys on youtube this guy's been good so far.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLu7CUdCxDM&t=326s

neckless
Member
# Posted: 14 Jul 2019 17:54
Reply 


if u pump 20 gals of water out of it how much time does it take to replenish gals/ per minite 1.5 gal. per minite will run a household

DaveBell
Member
# Posted: 14 Jul 2019 23:16 - Edited by: DaveBell
Reply 


Topo Map from Vermont Interactive Map Viewer.

Where did you find water? Where is your cabin site? The green areas are possible out house locations. I placed a circle where you could be way back in but don't know if you can drive that far. (yet)
SLIM_40_Sewage.jpg
SLIM_40_Sewage.jpg
SLIM_40_TOPO.jpg
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SLIM_40_Combine.jpg
SLIM_40_Combine.jpg


Brettny
Member
# Posted: 15 Jul 2019 08:03
Reply 


Thats hardly a monster. I have dug out and removed stumps big enough i could only push them around with my 3500lb machine. The good thing about an excavator is you have an arm that can act as a kick stand if used properly. I have used it as such.

Seat belt is very inportant!. You grab a hold of something with the bucket that dosnt want to move you can hit the windshield or get thrown out of the seat. I alwaye wear mine, always.

A 5000lb machine should beable to dig roughlt 8ft and costs about $400 to remt for the day here. You can do a whole lot of digging in 8hrs with one of these machines.

DaveBell
Member
# Posted: 15 Jul 2019 12:37
Reply 


Looking at the topo map, you have options for placing the outhouse in relation to the well and your cabin. What would really be nice is to have the well 20' to the left of the cabin and the outhouse 20' to the right of the cabin to get good separation and also have the outhouse at a lower elevation. Or vice versa. Then separation of well to waste would be 40' plus cabin width. 20' buried pipe or water fetch distance, 20' walk to the outhouse.

It's always a good idea to visit your local health department to discuss your ideas to see what they think. Getting permits is better than a nasty visit from the sheriff.

Since you are planning to get an excavator to deepen the well, you could use it in other spots to check for better well locations and spots for the outhouse to check for the absence of water for the outhouse.

turkeyboyslim
Member
# Posted: 15 Jul 2019 21:30
Reply 


Quoting: neckless
if u pump 20 gals of water out of it how much time does it take to replenish gals/ per minite 1.5 gal. per minite will run a household


Thanks, good idea to test that. I will have to pump the water out but what's the best way? I have a 12v pump but I need it to run my shower (I live here now)
I don't wanna clog it up and all that. The previous owner of the land left me with a sump pump and a shop vac, I've not used either but I'm assuming they work, which would be better to pump the murky water out?

Quoting: DaveBell
Where did you find water? Where is your cabin site?


I Drew the driveway thin black and my camper i'm living in blue.
Orange is cabin site and pink is where the well hole is.
Where the thick black line is, there is thick trees after that, going past there is kind of out of the question for now, as moving supplies there and walking around is a pain all in itself. It's 40 acres so just walking from the front of the property to the black line is close to 2000 feet, slightly uphill.

In one pic you can see the red car and camper at a distance, there I'm somewhat close to the hole, its about 40 feet behind me and to my left.

In the picture where the car is up close, you can see the building site as the weeds are cut shorter.
Inked127211_2_o_LI.j.jpg
Inked127211_2_o_LI.j.jpg
Building Site
Building Site
Near the hole
Near the hole
I drain, she fill right back up
I drain, she fill right back up


turkeyboyslim
Member
# Posted: 15 Jul 2019 21:44
Reply 


Maybe this will make more sense. The camper and driveway can be seen from the picture, Orange is building site, pink is well and the lime green is a spot im reserving for some years down the road building full time living cabin in, this spot I've been told is the best building site on the lot due to the soil and dryness. Also the views from here are wonderful.
Untitled.png
Untitled.png
View from the lime green spot
View from the lime green spot


DaveBell
Member
# Posted: 15 Jul 2019 22:02
Reply 


Quoting: turkeyboyslim
Orange is cabin site and pink is where the well hole is.


Good to go!! Well to the left and uphill of the cabin. Do some test holes to the direct right of your cabin for an out house. Hopefully you can find a dry spot.

DaveBell
Member
# Posted: 16 Jul 2019 08:14
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https://drainagedirect.com/our-products/covers/corrugated-pipe-covers.html

old243
Member
# Posted: 16 Jul 2019 08:35
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If you are just starting to develop your property. You will have lots of projects, that a mini hoe would be useful. I bought a used mini hoe several years ago. It is old and needed some maintenance. Should have had one years ago. I don't know your financial situation, mine cost 5000 dollars. probably put another 500.00 for repairs. Took a while to get used to using it, You would soon be , looking for an excuse, to get on it and do something. Mine will dig 6 feet deep, and weighs about 3000 pounds. Not just a toy. After you get done with it, if you choose, you can get your money , back any time. Mine is not for sale. There are 2 operating systems, depending on the make of machine. So depends what you are used to. Good luck old243

DaveBell
Member
# Posted: 16 Jul 2019 08:38 - Edited by: DaveBell
Reply 


12" diameter pipe filled to 12" = 5.88 gals
18" diameter pipe filled to 12" = 13.22 gals

If you dug a 11' hole for a 12' long pipe (need 12" exposed above grade) you would have 8' of water.
(based on the picture showing water starting 3')

8x5.88= 47 gals.

Then you could drill a hole in the pipe cover for 1/2 or 3/4 PVC pipe. Install PVC down to 11 feet from cover to keep intake off the bottom. Install garden hose adapter with screw-on cover on the top of the PVC.

Before choosing PVC size, the 12V pump size needs to be determined. The pump needs to be able to draw the water up. There is a water pump discussion in here somewhere. I think it was about pumping water from a lake. I do not know how to calculate this but others in here do.

Brettny
Member
# Posted: 16 Jul 2019 12:34
Reply 


I also have a micro mini excavator, 3,500lbs and prob 5-6ft digging depth. In 33hrs on the machine i built a rock solid driveway through a swamp, leveled two shed pads, opened up trails, stacked brush and firewood logs and opened up a 700ft long driveway. They are very very handy. I would not have a building on my property with out this little machine. They are a very great tool.

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