Small Cabin

Small Cabin Forum
 - Forums - Register/Sign Up - Reply - Search - Statistics -

Small Cabin Forum / Off-Grid Living / Any electricians willing to help me remotely?
Author Message
WILL1E
Member
# Posted: 14 Sep 2020 11:53
Reply 


Looking for an electrician that would be willing to help me remotely. I need to install a free standing pedestal on my vacant land to feed my 5th wheel.

I prefer to do everything myself to learn and save money. I have the spec sheet for what the power company wants, but there are some fuzzy areas i could use some help with.

If you'd be willing to help a guy out, let me know. We can do it via email, text or whatever works.

WILL1E
Member
# Posted: 14 Sep 2020 11:54
Reply 


FYI, i am in Wisconsin in case that affects anything.

Brettny
Member
# Posted: 14 Sep 2020 13:42
Reply 


This is done all the time in almost every state. Il be willing to bet there is even a drawing of one.

Did you have a specific question about something? I have put my own house service in here in NY.

Does WI allow you to do this your self? In NY I could but needed to have it inspected prior to hook up.

WILL1E
Member
# Posted: 14 Sep 2020 14:36 - Edited by: WILL1E
Reply 


I can do it and it has to be inspected. So long as i follow their requirements:
https://accel.wisconsinpublicservice.com/business/manual/section2.pdf

Page 5 and 14 seem to be the ones that most apply to my situation.

I was planning on this meter pedestal: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Milbank-200-Amp-Ringless-Underground-Meter-Socket-R3358-O -KK/202504282

Then i was thinking this panel on the opposite side of the 4x6" treated post: https://www.lowes.com/pd/GE-125-Amp-12-Spaces-24-Circuit-Main-Breaker-Load-Center-Val ue-Pack/1042649

I'd like to hang a 50 amp rv plug box and 15-20amp standard 3 prong outlet box below the breaker box.

Most of my questions are around making sure i use the right bushings, wire type/gauges, etc.

toyota_mdt_tech
Member
# Posted: 14 Sep 2020 19:11
Reply 


Will1E, is it going to be overhead or underground wiring?

Dont they make a panel and meter socket in one unit

Look up pedestal meter combo or a "meter main combos", get you a meter socket and a panel with some spaces in it for your needs. If you do build later, you can run power from this panel to a sub panel like a mobile home would.

https://www.homedepot.com/b/Electrical-Power-Distribution-Power-Metering-Meter-Main-C ombos/100/N-5yc1vZbm1bZ1z0rrpz?storeSelection=4742,4708,4724,4747,4701

And conduit will need the anti chafe ring over the threaded end and I know they want the conduit strapped tot he post even below grade.

Those combos will have the spaces for your 50A RV which will need 6AWG wire and your 15 or 20A circuit, 15A needs 14AWG min and 20A needs 12 AWG wire. I would suspect an outdoor duplex outlet may need to have a GFCI. Maybe get the panel signed off and just add your stuff afterwards???

WILL1E
Member
# Posted: 14 Sep 2020 21:25
Reply 


It's all underground.

They do, but that type is not on the approved list.

Tonight i bought the meter base, breaker panel linked above. I also bought the 5/8" grounding rod, 6 gauge copper ground wire and acorn nuts. I also bought this 50 amp kit to go below the panel:
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Eaton-50-Amp-GFCI-Receptacles-Overhead-Temporary-Power-Panel /3027570

So on page 14 of that spec sheet they say i need to run conduit through the wood post between the meter box and the breaker box. Do i use PVC conduit or how do i do that part?

Also, The meter box has a knockout on the back panel above where the meter goes. I don't believe the breaker panel does. It does have the cap on the top. So do I get a right angle connector of some sorts to connect into the top of the breaker and then that goes through the conduit in the wood post and into the back of the meter base?
Pedestal Spec
Pedestal Spec


WILL1E
Member
# Posted: 14 Sep 2020 21:54
Reply 


I just took the breaker panel out of the box and i'm not sure this is going to work. The holes for mounting the box to the wall/post are wider than my post.

Also, the only knockouts on the back panel of the breaker box are at the bottom. So i'm not sure if i can connect the breaker box to the meter through the top plate opening or not.

toyota_mdt_tech
Member
# Posted: 14 Sep 2020 23:09 - Edited by: toyota_mdt_tech
Reply 


WILL1E, drill some new holes, and buy a hole saw, electricians use a "knockout" where they drill a small home and tighten down a pair of metal cutters and it punches a nice round hole.

I would use plastic conduit (gray stuff) through the post, avoid in the top, better to keep weather out if in the back. Drill large enough so conduit wi th glued on threaded ends will fit, because you can just go to larger hole saw once hole si drilled. You will have to get the threaded ends for it with the spanner nuts, and you MUST put the threaded bushing on the end of the conduit threads inside the box and meter panel (my area, it was required, but could vary, cheap and harder to add, so just pick them up and do it, I have image of bushing to give you an idea). Ok, looking at your schematic, it shows the bushings. Get the gray conduit glue, looks nicer that the Christy Red hot.

If conduit hooks from below, get one (bushing) for it also. They are real fussy about this.

Also, many are now requiring 2 ground rods, so many feet apart, with the ground wire hooking to both, and not cut, but one continuous run. You can bury the tops of the ground rods, just make sure ground clamps are rated to be buried, or they will red tag ya.
Threaded bushing for conduit
Threaded bushing for conduit


Brettny
Member
# Posted: 15 Sep 2020 06:04
Reply 


Did you close on this property yet? I thought from previous threads you where about to.

For the price difference I would seriously look at a 200a service. Even though you plan on only parking an RV there. The real cost difference is the main pannel since the power company will own thr rest.

With only 12 spaces you could alreaty be limiting your self. Breaker pannels fill up real quick.

WILL1E
Member
# Posted: 15 Sep 2020 08:45
Reply 


@toyota_mdt_tech
I have a hole saw set.

Since i'm a measure twice, cut once kinda guy i rely on visuals to ensure i understand everything correctly. See attached photo.

Questions:
1. Is my diagram accurate?
2. The hole size through the post must accommodate the largest fitting which would be the male adapter?
3. The hole size through the panel and breaker boxes just need to be large enough to accomodate the threads of the male adapter?
4. What size conduit should i use?
5. Any specs on where i can pop the hole on the back wall of the breaker box?
6. Is a standard PVC male adapter acceptable? The call out everything being weatherproof and often refer to NEMA 3.

As you'll notice i have unitstrut added to my setup. The upper mounting holes of the breaker box are wider than the width of the treated post.

@Brettny
We haven't closed yet, they are hoping it'll get moved up to next week though!! I'll take an extra week as fall/winter is closing in quick already around here.

The service coming in is 200amp, they don't do anything less than that around here now is what i was told.


I will say doing all of this is overwhelming to say the least. But it is fun learning all this new stuff! I've never hired anyone to do anything before and i don't want to start now. So i appreciate you guys helping me through this! Virtual beers and/or donuts coming your way
Pedestal Diagram
Pedestal Diagram


Nobadays
Member
# Posted: 15 Sep 2020 09:04
Reply 


Your hole saw will work fine... with some work clearing it periodically... for the post, but you will want a Knockout Punch for putting any new holes in your electrical panel or meter base. They make a clean hole.

Harbor Freight sells one pretty cheap, less than $25 that will make up to 1 1/4" knockout. If you need a larger hole, maybe rent one from a big box store? I bought a set LIKE THIS several years ago for a project I was working on... a control panel box, numerous holes needed punched... worked great. I have since used it for punching holes as needed when installing my solar equipment. Still going strong.... it's not a Greenlee quality tool but it will get the job done.

WILL1E
Member
# Posted: 15 Sep 2020 10:46
Reply 


Thanks for the tip, i'll pick a set up at HF!

toyota_mdt_tech
Member
# Posted: 15 Sep 2020 20:38 - Edited by: toyota_mdt_tech
Reply 


Will1E, I am not an electrician, but get around in this area really well.

So with that, I would say 1 1/4 or 1 1/2 counduit would be fine. Use the GRAY stuff. You drawing looks fine, the bushing will actually screw on after the spanner nut, it will but up to the spanner pretty close. The male adapter, they have seal rings for those where they fit into the back of the panel to make it water tight, they are usually yellow in color. You may have to buy a 10 pk or something, but cheap. You drawling looks fine to me. As for where you drill holes, look in the panel, just make sure its not going to interfere with your stuff or theirs coming in. Use nice size lag bolts with nice galvanized washers and make it stout to bolt this to the post, because once the meter is installed, you cant get back into that side.

Also, I doubt the panel/meter socket being wider that the post is an issue.

We have a nice local hardware store that will build you a complete meter panel just like what you are after, all up to code etc, they assemble it, post and all, you just pay, dig hole and sink it in.

But its fun doing it yourself. If its underground feed, you will need a anchor near the bottom of the feeder conduit, they worry about it pulling out during backfill.

WILL1E
Member
# Posted: 16 Sep 2020 08:08
Reply 


Thanks for the help again!

I looked at Menards and Home Depot sites and i'm not seeing those seal rings. Hopefully its something in the stores. Do i put one inside and outside of the pan?

I was watching some videos last night and it looked like people put locknuts inside and outside of the pan. Is that neccesary or is there a reason for that?

They handle all the conduit/wiring going into the meter side.

Some more questions:
A. What specific wire (type/gauge) do i need to go from meter base to breaker panel?

B. Same question for 20amp breaker going to 3 prong box that will be below breaker panel.

C. Same question for 50amp breaker going to 50amp RV plug that will be below breaker box.

toyota_mdt_tech
Member
# Posted: 16 Sep 2020 08:15 - Edited by: toyota_mdt_tech
Reply 


Seal ring should be just on outside of the box where the PVC coupler sets up against the box. I have seen couplers that have them on it already, they are yellow in color (probably so inspector knows its there) and a hardish plastic, its not rubber or foam.

What size service you doing? 200A? 125A, 100A? That will play a role. IMHO, go 200A

Not sure on wire size from meter to panel, I know it wil be at least 4AWG, maybe single O size. This will depend on service coming in.

20A breaker, you need 12AWG. 2 wire W/ground, will have the black, white and a bare wire. If this is for an outlet mounted on box, probably be an outdoor set up, means a GFCI plug. Maybe add this after the inspector signs off and power is hooked up.

50A, get 6AWG, you want 4 wires, I like the red, black, white and green/bare

WILL1E
Member
# Posted: 16 Sep 2020 08:51
Reply 


10-4 I'll look for those seals. It seems like there are more options for the metal conduit vs. PVC...but i agree the PVC would be easier to work with.

I was told 200A is all they do now.

I like your idea of leaving the outlets off until after the inspection. I know the disconnect has to be there, but i wasn't sure if at least 1 outlet had to be installed with the breaker.

jsahara24
Member
# Posted: 16 Sep 2020 10:07
Reply 


Quoting: WILL1E
I like your idea of leaving the outlets off until after the inspection. I know the disconnect has to be there, but i wasn't sure if at least 1 outlet had to be installed with the breaker.


In NY I needed to have 1 GFCI outlet hooked up at the panel to pass the inspection. Good luck!

WILL1E
Member
# Posted: 16 Sep 2020 13:44
Reply 


For some reason in my head i think that's the same thing for WI. I think it's an easy way for them to check that you have stuff hooked up right.

toyota_mdt_tech
Member
# Posted: 16 Sep 2020 20:29 - Edited by: toyota_mdt_tech
Reply 


OK, found the liquid tight connectors for the ends of the pass through conduit, looks like they are compression types at the conduit and use an o-ring to seal, same where it goes into the box, seal is done with an o-ring. I found them on the home depot website, this was 1.5" size, but they have 1.25 etc.

5 pak for $29.00
Connector
Connector


old243
Member
# Posted: 16 Sep 2020 22:34
Reply 


You might also mount your panel and meter base, receptacles etc on a plywood panel. Use 2 posts , of proper size, spaced apart .To accomodate meter base and panel on same side. You would eliminate the need to bore the post and give more stability, to the pedestal set up. Not sure if this is to code , but don't see why not . You can then use a steel or pvc nipple between. I assume you are including a green ground wire between base and panel , if required, to carry grounding. I am an old electrician , so might be behind the times, codes vary. old243

darz5150
Member
# Posted: 16 Sep 2020 23:42 - Edited by: darz5150
Reply 


Quoting: old243
You might also mount your panel and meter base, receptacles etc on a plywood panel. Use 2 posts , of proper size, spaced apart .To accomodate meter base and panel on same side

I did something very similar except I used 2 2 x12's 4 feet long between the posts. Then added a sheet metal roof to protect everything from the weather. My genny dog house is located underneath. The pedestal is beefy enough to hold the meter, main disconnect, transfer/dis connect box for when the grid drops out. Another small breaker box with an outlet and an led flood light to light up the genny house, and also an led pole mounted yard light.
I put in a 75 foot SOW cord to power an additional camper if need be.
Everything can be used with or without grid power. Plus I put a digital led volt meter that let's me know what's going on. Whether on grid or generator power.

WILL1E
Member
# Posted: 17 Sep 2020 07:57
Reply 


@toyota_mdt_tech i did see those and was wondering if i could use them. Pricey, but seem like a good solution.

I have seen the dual post pedestal setups at other properties, however, that spec sheet i posted earlier is specifically what the designer/engineer gave me so that's why i was trying to stick with that.

So does anyone know the exact answers to these questions assuming 200A coming in?

A. What specific wire(s) (type/gauge) do i need to go from meter base to breaker panel?

B. Same question for 20amp breaker going to 3 prong box that will be below breaker panel.

C. Same question for 50amp breaker going to 50amp RV plug that will be below breaker box.

Brettny
Member
# Posted: 17 Sep 2020 08:07
Reply 


For 120v 20a 12/2 is pretty standard. As to what code allows in conduit I'm not up on codes.

toyota_mdt_tech
Member
# Posted: 18 Sep 2020 08:24 - Edited by: toyota_mdt_tech
Reply 


Quoting: WILL1E
So does anyone know the exact answers to these questions assuming 200A coming in?

A. What specific wire(s) (type/gauge) do i need to go from meter base to breaker panel?

B. Same question for 20amp breaker going to 3 prong box that will be below breaker panel.

C. Same question for 50amp breaker going to 50amp RV plug that will be below breaker box.


OK, I did answer all those except the wire size going through from meter base to breaker panel, but now we know you want 200A service, size it for that.

For 200A, it looks like 2/0 if you use copper, 4/0 if you use aluminum. If you use aluminum, put anti oxidant over the wire ends. Be very carful cutting back the jacket on AL wires, DO NOT NICK them, or they will break off. Same can be said for copper too, but a little more durable. The anti oxidant sold at Home Depot is called Noalox and you can certainly use it on the copper too, but code if you use AL

Your 20A circuit needs to be 12AWG, your 50A circuit need to be 6AWG, those will be copper only.

Nobadays
Member
# Posted: 18 Sep 2020 08:46
Reply 


Conduit charts show you can only put 2 x 2/0 in a 1 1/4" conduit. You will have 3, two hot and a neutral. You will need to go with 1 1/2" conduit to connect the two.... that means the HF knockout punch wouldn't be big enough, only goes to 1 1/4". Maybe a big box store rents one? Or locate your holes and find an electrician and give him a few bucks to punch the holes.

WILL1E
Member
# Posted: 18 Sep 2020 08:53
Reply 


Well i'm making some progress, but i feel like i've got way to much stuff to all fit on this 4x6 post.

The meter box is pretty cut and dry as to where it has to be located based on the specs the power company gave me. And the wire has to go out the backside of the pan through the wood post.

I got 1/0 wire to go from the meter to the breaker box since they sold that by the foot. Since i'm going through the center of the post, the fittings for that wire will pretty much use up that entire face of the post below the breaker panel. Plus, the breaker will be on unistrut and offset to one side so i can line up with a larger knockout on the bottom.

I still need to add the 20A GFCI outlet and the 50A RV outlet. I need to somehow use the 2 remaining post faces to get these outlets on there. The 20A box/cover is a hair wider than the post face. The 50A outlet is almost 6.5" wide.

Any ideas how i can lay this all out????
IMG_3200.jpg
IMG_3200.jpg
IMG_3203.jpg
IMG_3203.jpg
IMG_3204.jpg
IMG_3204.jpg


toyota_mdt_tech
Member
# Posted: 18 Sep 2020 10:54
Reply 


Is that an outdoor fuse box? (knockout on the top)??1/0 might be too small for 200A service.

WILL1E
Member
# Posted: 18 Sep 2020 13:35
Reply 


@toyota_mdt_tech The service coming to the meter is 200A, however my panel is only 125A, so 1/0 should be plenty. It's based on the breaker, not the incoming service right?

Your reply
Bold Style  Italic Style  Underlined Style  Thumbnail Image Link  Large Image Link  URL Link           :) ;) :-( :confused: More smilies...

» Username  » Password 
Only registered users can post here. Please enter your login/password details before posting a message, or register here first.