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KinAlberta
Member
# Posted: 8 Dec 2018 20:16 - Edited by: KinAlberta
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Quoting: orangetom1999
Nuclear power...LOL LOL LOL LOL

Apparently France recycles it’s fuel and nuclear power has mostly worked well in Japan except for building a plant on a beach. (Huge, huge downside to errors in thinking.) If they could use a but more common sense, the world might be able to use a lot more nuclear.



The Case for Terrestrial (a.k.a. Nuclear) Energy - Imprimis

2008

“France has produced 80 percent of its electricity with nuclear power for the last 25 years. It stores all its high-level “nuclear waste” in a single room at Le Havre.”

https://imprimis.hillsdale.edu/the-case-for-terrestrial-aka-nuclear-energy/

toyota_mdt_tech
Member
# Posted: 8 Dec 2018 21:37 - Edited by: toyota_mdt_tech
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If France does
Quoting: KinAlberta
Apparently France recycles it’s fuel and nuclear power has mostly worked well


Good option, the waste scares me. We have a ton of it leaking in my state (see Hanford) and one good leak could render a huge chunk of France uninhabitable. Have you seen footage of hunters going into the Fukushima restricted area, its all overgrown, everything just left (creepy/eerie). They are hunting wild boars, they are over running the place and getting outside the boundary. I see Chernobyl has this exact same issue with wolves.
Vulnerable target for terrorism too.

Yes, putting the plant on a beach was a dumb idea. That reactor should of been shut down when the quake hit. I know its a slow process. That thing is costing billions and will haunt them for many years.
Wouldn't it be nice to discover a bacteria that could eat it. I know they have discovered a bacterial that will eat oil spills in the oceans.
Hey, isnt steam and water vapor a greenhouse gas?

KelVarnsen
Member
# Posted: 9 Dec 2018 00:17 - Edited by: KelVarnsen
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Quoting: Cowracer
Why do you feel compelled to have to 'sway' Anyone?


Normally I wouldn't feel compelled to sway anyone. However, greenhouse gases do not respect borders. If you want to disagree with me on most other issues than I wouldn't care. Your choice to emit carbon into the atmosphere effects people thousands of miles away.

Quoting: Cowracer
you use "denier" as a derogatory term


I absolutely do not use "denier" as a derogatory term. If you take it as personal assault than that is on you. I am a man-made climate change "believer". If you call me such, than I totally agree and do not take it as an insult. It is simply an accurate statement as to my stance on the issue.

Quoting: Cowracer
You cannot make or legislate anyone else to care about it as you do.


I am not "making" nor "legislating" anyone to care as I do. I am simply trying to explain my position and to influence as I see fit. You are free to make up you own mind. There is nothing personal here. I've tried to present a factual argument from reputable sources. If I see a wrong I will try to make it right. I can sometimes take things very personally, but I also spend a great deal of time examining the facts to make sure that my stances and choices are factually and morally sound.

I don't understand the vehemence of the climate change denial side (and I'm sorry if you find that term derogatory). If you don't believe in man-made climate change than move along, ignore my arguments and feel comfortable in your choices. However, it is the most vulnerable and underprivileged in the world that are going bear the brunt of the consequences of climate change. Don't change your lifestyle if you don't want to. I am going to what I can to minimize my carbon footprint in order to minimize the suffering of others. You do as you please.

orangetom1999
Member
# Posted: 9 Dec 2018 04:31 - Edited by: orangetom1999
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Kin Alberta,

Apparently France recycles it’s fuel and nuclear power has mostly worked well in Japan except for building a plant on a beach. (Huge, huge downside to errors in thinking.) If they could use a but more common sense, the world might be able to use a lot more nuclear.



Yes Indeed...France does recycle or separate its spent fuel and put the highly radioactive stuff in special containers and at a special site.

Any still usable fuel is separated...the rest is highly radioactive.


And Japan has not had such an successful nuclear program. This is covered up carefully by the news media and continues to so be.

There was an accident some 15 to 20 years ago at the site wherein nuclear chemicals or components are manufactured into pellets or whatever constitutes their fuel rods. The stuff went critical by the descriptions of what happened and they dumped certain poisonous chemicals to stop the stuff from going further critical. Problem is that this stuff ..poison ..they used to stop the runaway criticality is itself poisonous to humans. People died there from the solution as well as being exposed to inadvertent criticality/radiation of the stuff used to manufacture fuel.

The Japanese workers at this site cheated the safety procedures and got caught...fatally.



In many places ...commercial reactor sites...spent fuel rods are stored in pools of water. Water is a natural shielding for uranium fuel rods. If they lose the water...you are going to have a Fukashima at these sites. Not smart and this is going on all a round this country.

France has the right idea but it is expensive to reprocess fuel rods with low uranium content.
Commercial fuel rods are low uranium content.


All of Japan is an earthquake zone. The entire system needs to be put on shock mounts if they are going to do this .....the piping ..the generators ...etc etc.

That is how a submarine is built...on shock mounts for explosion/depth charge survival. But this is expensive and requires specialty engineering as well as people who know how to correctly assemble it.

This story and sequence of events in Japan was somewhat obscured in the news paper accounts but working in that field I understood what had happened.


Thanks ,

Orangetom

Not an Ishmaelite.

orangetom1999
Member
# Posted: 9 Dec 2018 04:39 - Edited by: orangetom1999
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toyota_mdt_tech,

Hanford is a processing site for Plutonium often used in manufacturing weapons grade materials.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanford_Site

Hanford is also one of the oldest such sites in America. This meaning the piping and such are olde and decaying.

Leaks have happened at other aging sites around America but most of this is kept out of the news.

Not at all surprised at the news of four legged wildlife moving into these sites...in Japan and Russia.

All of both the four legged and two legged wildlife around here know how to read personal dosimeters and radiation signs posted in these areas.

This is the dosimeter we use at work..

https://www.fishersci.co.uk/shop/products/c/12885582

These are expensive at about 400 dollars each.

Thanks,
Orangetom

Not an Ishmaelite.

toyota_mdt_tech
Member
# Posted: 9 Dec 2018 10:23
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OK, so if CO2 was .0038% of the atmospheric gas and now its up to .0039% (scarier if you use parts per million) would it be a safe assumption, this is the life giving gas for plant life, would they not thrive and absorb it?

Global warming can lead to global cooling.

Isnt is wonderful how the earth takes care of itself.
Just the sun, wind rain alone breaks down things. Sun does a great job.

I dont consider a life giving gas that is natural as pollution, (CO2 in a carbin based society) the other side just changes its name to create or mfg a crisis. Also, greenhouse gasses is what protect us all from freezing to death. Without them, we'd all be frozen solid.

The entire hoax is more about people control, taxing energy (confiscating your wealth), then when they control healthcare (working on that now) then there is no end to what they can say you can and cant do. You will be surrendering liberties and freedom.

[url=https://www.sciencealert.com/a-mini-ice-age-is-coming-in-the-next-15-years]
Science alerts for those who thinks models are science.[/url]

Cold weather kills 20X more people then warmer weather.

The truth is, I do everything I can to conserve, reuse, recycle, managing a 40 acre timber farm at a great cost to me. I do it because I like it, no one is forcing me, I love the habitat I create for the wildlife, love my little slice of heaven on earth as does all the members in here I am sure and as side affect, I'm carbon neutral. But that certainly wasnt my first priority. I'm just a good steward of the land. Some think it only comes if you drive a hybrid, all solar powered.

Anyway, I tossed out some more items for civil discussion

Borrego
Member
# Posted: 9 Dec 2018 10:41
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Quoting: 95XL883
Please accept my apologies for my part in this.


No apologies necessary my friend.....

ICC
Member
# Posted: 9 Dec 2018 12:05
Reply 


Quoting: toyota_mdt_tech
...then when they control healthcare (working on that now) then there is no end to what they can say you can and cant do.....


Wonder how many Canadians in this crowd would trade their healthcare system for that of the US?

ICC
Member
# Posted: 9 Dec 2018 12:18 - Edited by: ICC
Reply 


Quoting: toyota_mdt_tech
Isnt is wonderful how the earth takes care of itself.
Just the sun, wind rain alone breaks down things. Sun does a great job.


That is ignoring one big difference between the referred to time or event in that article. 7.7 billion people and their activities.

creeky
Member
# Posted: 9 Dec 2018 13:21 - Edited by: creeky
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Quoting: ICC
Wonder how many Canadians in this crowd would trade their healthcare system for that of the US


0

And our system isn't as good as France or Denmark or Sweden or ... they have even better health care that costs less. It comes down mostly to tech adoption and the way the incentivize doctors.

The science is clear. CO2 is way up. from 265 ppm to over 405. The oceans are becoming more acidic. The ice caps are melting. This is observable.

To say its not human driven is to be blind to the obvious.

The earth does not "take care of itself." We have sewage systems for a reason. Took lead out of gasoline for a reason. Installed smoke stacks and scrubbers for a reason.

My biggest issue is, on both sides, you have the extremists. Look. we've faced obstacles and hurdles before. And beat them.

Lets start productive conversations around "what can be done."

Here's a neat "what can be done" I read recently.

Solar. Wind. Heat pumps. Electric transportation. These are viable technologies for today.

And as a side note. In my area solar power is already cheaper than hooking up to the grid. .95 on the dollar. Sure. Its only a nickle cheaper. But it shows how far we've come.

And I look forward to spending my weekly gas bill for the truck on something else.

orangetom1999
Member
# Posted: 9 Dec 2018 13:47 - Edited by: orangetom1999
Reply 


Toyota-mdt-tech,

Nicely stated. I've asked the same question....about CO2.

LOL LOL LOL....I too do my part...I quit drinking CO2 sodas...just drink water and tea now...

As I stated previously ..I also take my scooter most of the time.

I just don't want someone "Herding " me and mine ...with shame and guilt trips. Not interested inn that at all.

Agree....it is people control...or a return to the olde feudal dogma of absolute power...or if you prefer...
"Divine Right of Kings" as a form of religious absolute power. This if you have been taught any history...

Someone is looking to pyramid Climate Change into global control....power. This was the dream of the Pharoah's...the Roman Emperors and other throughout the centuries....absolute power.

Again...if you have had good history teachers who can connect the dots for you.

Such control is Ishmael...a form of bondage...loss of liberty and freedom...more government controls leading to loss of liberty and freedom...particularly the freedom to spend your hard earned monies on what you decide...not what government decided...as they are so doing with health care.

Let me quote creeky here in the correct context about what is coming..

Creeky stated..

Lets start productive conversations around "what can be done."



We are going to need a translator here to get around the PC verbiage..

It should read..."Lets start productive conversations on what we are going to force people by law to do against their will and over their objections and pay for it."

Oh...by the way...though it is not often told in it's entirety and by our phony deceitful MSM.....France is going broke to pay for this kind of stuff...all across the board....and recently amplified by the Climate Change Carbon Tax...and the potential increases coming.

My non Ishmaelite .02,
Orangetom

toyota_mdt_tech
Member
# Posted: 9 Dec 2018 14:14
Reply 


Quoting: orangetom1999
Nicely stated. I've asked the same question....about CO2.


Now add in Milankovitch Cycles...

and its no wonder the temps vary.
That would explain when arctic ice retreats, Antarctica ice expands. Antarctic Sea Ice Reaches New Record Maximum
From 2014.

Remember this when the ship studying global warming got locked in southern sea ice and both breakers from several countries also was stuck in it trying to free them?:
142622_600.jpg
142622_600.jpg


Borrego
Member
# Posted: 9 Dec 2018 14:33
Reply 


Quoting: ICC
Wonder how many Canadians in this crowd would trade their healthcare system for that of the US?


Oh, Good job, ICC...let's start another heated debate that has nothing to do with cabins....

And BTW, my visit to a buddy's place in CA a couple years ago found most Canadians wishing they had US healthcare. All had relatives that had died waiting for care...they drove down to Buffalo when they got really sick, to get good, quick care. There are videos all over YouTube about the 'vaunted' Canadian healthcare system, what a joke....

ICC
Member
# Posted: 9 Dec 2018 15:36 - Edited by: ICC
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It wasn't me who wandered into healthcare issues. I copied the reference from a previous post ---- "The entire hoax is more about people control, taxing energy (confiscating your wealth), then when they control healthcare...."


Quoting: Borrego
And BTW, my visit to a buddy's place in CA a couple years ago found most Canadians wishing they had US healthcare. All had relatives that had died waiting for care


I doubt that it is "most" Canadians. In the past 5 years I have traveled Canada from coast to coast and in between. I've stayed in a lot of B&B's and talked with the Canadian owners. We've had some interesting conversations and none of them included chucking their healthcare system for one modeled after the US. Did some of them have complaints? Yes, some did. But we I asked if they would trade, nobody wanted to.

Right here in the US I know people who have had life/death issues with getting the medically needed healthcare because their insurance company denied coverage. Plus life expectancy is about 2.5 years longer in Canada than the US. There may be other factors in play but a large difference is probably due to the insurance/no insurance thing.

PLUS, 40 years ago the employer of one of my brothers moved him to Ft. MsMurray for a year. He met and married the woman he is still married to. Lived there for 10-12 years, then moved back here to the US and also spent time in the oil fields in different parts of the world. Now he is retired and lives in Manitoba part of the year, here in NM part of the year and a couple of months somewhere else in the world. So, my knowledge of life in Canada has some direct connections through his wife's family and friends who I have also met over several decades.

One of the scare tactics that has been used against a singlepayer system here in the US has been that there will be "death panels" deciding who gets what. We already have the same thing with the insurance companies.

If there are any Canadians reading this who would like to change to a system modeled after the US, I would like to hear from them, before this gets shut down.

From what I see Creeky would be a NO vote for a change to the US system.

Sorry, cabinbuilder, but I could not resist taking the detour once someone mentioned the healthcare, health insurance, scare thing.

Cowracer
Member
# Posted: 9 Dec 2018 17:46
Reply 


Quoting: KelVarnsen
I am simply trying to explain my position


Your opinion is noted.

Tim

Borrego
Member
# Posted: 9 Dec 2018 18:12
Reply 


Hey, since ICC is worried about this getting shut down....let's talk about gun control real quick......anyone?

ICC
Member
# Posted: 9 Dec 2018 18:53 - Edited by: ICC
Reply 


No, I don't want to get into a debate about guns. I own an assortment of guns. But I have wondered why my chances of being involved in some sort of gun violence is 8 to 10 times higher when I am in the US instead of Canada.

orangetom1999
Member
# Posted: 9 Dec 2018 19:14 - Edited by: orangetom1999
Reply 


Toyota-mdt-tech,

Interesting that link you posted on Milankovitch Cycles.

The precession and tilt arenas reminded me of when the US Air Force trained us on Inertial Navigation two and three axis gyros for navigation and bomb nav purposes.

Gyroscopic Presession was one of the factors designed into the system...as well as earth rate...and corioliss forces.

Wow!! It has been a long long time since I've even thought of those words...thanks for the tour down memory lane.

I vaguely remember that story about the ship caught in the ice and help being sent along the way...

This is not a new phenomenon in the Antarctic and or the Artic ice though I don't envy anyone to whom this happens.

One likes to think that with all this more modern equipment ....such things do not occur...but nature is still a very very difficult taskmaster.


I've seen a number of photos at this shipyard wherein Submarines built here have gone up north and come through the ice..and people have gotten off...and set up shop on the ice so to speak..done experiments and collected data.
In one of them there are several Submarines breaking the ice within visual distance of each other.

One of the most interesting photos I have seen is of a submarine approached by a polar bear.

I think everyone stayed down below on that day...the photo was taken through the periscope.

I don't worry much about the Artic or AntArtic retreating ice...if the retreat they will eventually come back. In process of time if they come back they will eventually retreat.




One of the most startling things to me was to find out that the WW2 fighter... a P 38 landed on a glacier in Greenland..and when they found her again she was buried under some 260 feet of ice.
She went down in 1942... by 1992 Glacier Girl, the name given to the aircraft, was raised back to the surface and taken to the states for restoration.

Nonetheless..I was stunned to realize that in fifty or so years...she was buried under some 260 feet of ice.

They are trying to bring another P38 aircraft up from the ice to be restored like Glacier Girl.


I love to see those olde airplanes flying...and ironically in a day of stealth..and super fast jets.


By Borrego,

Hey, since ICC is worried about this getting shut down....let's talk about gun control real quick......anyone?


Now this is going to be interesting.
Nothing like a diversified portfolio.


Thanks,
Orangetom

Not an Ishmaelite

silverwaterlady
Member
# Posted: 9 Dec 2018 19:56
Reply 


I wasn't going to get in on this. This is off topic, sort of.

Half of my relatives live in Canada. They are very satisfied with the health care they receive.
They do not have to worry about deductibles and out of pockets, if the doctors, specialists, labs etc... are in network, if the hospital they are rushed to for emergency care is in network.

They don't have to spend hours on the phone with their insurance company.

They do not have to worry that one illness will bankrupt their family. Every penny they worked for and saved for retirement gone to medical expenses.

If they are stuck in a soul sucking job they do not have to stay because they will lose their medical benefits.

They are paid mileage for long drives for medical care and family members are paid for hotel stays if their loved one is in hospital far from home.


They do have to wait for care sometimes depending on what is medically needed. That is the only bad thing. The list.

When I tell them our experiences with the American healthcare system they are shocked.

Someone very close to me had a mild heart attack and heart surgery this fall. He is fine and when I saw him I asked him if he was worried about the medical bills he would soon be receiving through the mail.
We had a good laugh over that. Since that was our topic of conversation a few months prior.

He won't be receiving any bill through the mail because he is Canadian and can recover without the shock of the bills to come.
BTW he went to the hospital in the afternoon was admitted immedialty and had surgery the following morning.
No waiting list.

toyota_mdt_tech
Member
# Posted: 9 Dec 2018 20:57 - Edited by: toyota_mdt_tech
Reply 


Quoting: ICC
No, I don't want to get into a debate about guns. I own an assortment of guns. But I have wondered why my chances of being involved in some sort of gun violence is 8 to 10 times higher


I dont know, but back on track, your CO2 tons per capita is higher in Canada than the US. (2017 18.62 Canada vs 15.56 US)

Looks like you need to do way more if you really doing anything at all.
Distraction
Distraction


Borrego
Member
# Posted: 9 Dec 2018 22:46
Reply 


Quoting: silverwaterlady
Half of my relatives live in Canada. They are very satisfied with the health care they receive.


Well screw me then....I guess all of the Canucks I talked to were lyin'.... along with the news stories and you tubes feeds I checked out. Hmmmm....
And I would say the US healthcare system was far superior...that is until Obummer got elected and and screwed it up. We lost incredible insurance and could never afford/justify buying in again....many people I knew lost their insurance as well.
Speaking for myself, I'd rather have the US version..

MtnDon
Member
# Posted: 10 Dec 2018 01:53
Reply 


I don’t recall if I ever mentioned here that I am Canadian. I’ve lived in the US since the mid eighties. US and Canadian citizenship.

I have family members that still reside in western Canada. We have all had a health issue or two or more through those years. We all made it through our various crises. I had two hospital stays, one extended. Both occurred more or less out of the blue, no direct fault of my own. Both were serious, one a near death situation. Somehow, out of sheer blind luck the few times I ended up being hospitalized I had insurance. There were a few years when we couldn’t afford health insurance. Had the serious hospital stays happened during one of the periods of no insurance we would have faced serious financial consequences. We knew we were taking a chance, but there was little alternative. Money we had was used to feed ourselves and develop a business. Hospital and doctor bills totaled over $200,000 on one of these.

The past two years we have traveled back to Canada for several weeks in the summer. I renewed old friendships with school chums and people I used to work with. Some of them have had either a serious accident or have developed a debilitating disease. None of them have ever had to give a second thought to having to come up with money to pay medical bills.

Yes, those Canadians are paying more taxes to their federal and provincial governments. One of my friends who before retiring was making slightly over $120K a year estimates that he paid about $1K a month in taxes that went to the medical system for his family’s care. However, I paid about the same per month for insurance for just myself because I had a preexisting condition… (previous stay in the hospital that was not my fault except for the genes I was born with) then more for the rest of the family. I had countless discussions with insurance gnomes over items the insurance company said they did not cover.

I would rather have paid more in taxes and had coverage. Now I am covered by US Medicare, one of the US versions of a single payer health system. There are millions of other people in the US who are covered by one of the other single payer systems here in the US. The US Armed Forces.

All systems can have problems. The Canadian system falls short in some measures. US Medicare falls short in some ways. The VA system has some issues. The private insurance companies create problems for their subscribers when they do their best to protect their profits and not their patients. All problems can be fixed, though.

Question: Why is it that the US total per capita expenditures for medical care are about twice that of Canada and about 40% more than the second most expensive care country in the world. (That has been Switzerland, Norway or the Netherlands in some of the recent past years). The numbers are approximate, don’t crucify me for being out a few percentage points. The error is small compared to the differences in costs.

What is especially galling is that having spent so much more you’d think that at least we would have superior care. Well, we have a shorter life expectancy than any of the developed countries such as Canada, the UK, Australia, New Zealand and the EU. There are about 30 countries with a longer life expectancy than the US. They all spend less per capita on healthcare costs. Approximately 28 countries have a lower infant mortality rate than the US.

There are certain things the US does excell at; the US has very good cancer treatment. But that is only if you have good insurance.


One other thing that has always puzzled me. As a former small business employer here in the US I was puzzled why I should be made to participate in the health insurance industry. I went into business because I enjoyed what I was building. But then once a year I had to go shopping to make sure I was able to offer a reasonable health insurance plan to employees. That took time away from all the other things involved in running a business. My Canadian friends who were in business had no such bother. Certainly, we all had other things that involved government rules. But the annual US health insurance circus never made much sense to me.

And as was mentioned, the US system of employer benefit health insurance does keep many folks in jobs they detest solely because they need the insurance. Luckily for me, I have never felt I was in that position.

Ontario lakeside
Member
# Posted: 10 Dec 2018 12:16 - Edited by: Ontario lakeside
Reply 


Canadian here and cancer survivor. My care was world class and timely. Don’t believe what you see on you tube. Canadians love their healthcare system so much that no political party no matter how far right will dare to suggest altering it. As for our cO2 tons per capita being higher than the US.... it’s a big cold country 😁

qbodsyt
Member
# Posted: 16 Apr 2019 12:07
Reply 


Quoting: toyota_mdt_tech
Looks like you need to do way more if you really doing anything at all.

Distraction



In the morning sir

toyota_mdt_tech
Member
# Posted: 16 Apr 2019 15:51 - Edited by: toyota_mdt_tech
Reply 


Here is a quote or article from 1922:


Here is a cool article on global warming and all the melting ice, but its 96 years old. .



The Arctic Ocean is warming up, icebergs are growing scarcer and in some places the seals are finding the water too hot according to a report to the Commerce Department yesterday from the Consulate at Bergen, Norway.

Reports from fishermen, seal hunters and explorers all point to a radical change in climate conditions and hitherto unheard of temperatures in the Arctic zone.

Exploration expeditions report that scarcely any ice has been met as far north as 81 degrees 29 minutes. Soundings to a depth of 3,100 meters showed the gulf stream still very warm. Great masses of ice have been replaced by moraines of earth and stones, the report continued, while at many points well known glaciers have entirely disappeared.

Very few seals and no white fish are found in the eastern Arctic,while vast shoals of herring and smelts which have never before ventured so far north, are being encountered in the old seal fishing grounds.

Within a few years it is predicted that due to the ice melt the sea will rise and make most coast cities uninhabitable

I must apologize. I neglected to mention that this report was from November 2, 1922, as reported by the AP and published in The Washington Post 96 years ago. This must have been caused by the Model T Ford's emissions or possibly from horse and cattle farts.



I already snoped it, its all true.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/warm-welcome/

Doing my part, just bought a brand new 2019 RAV4 Hybrid, 41mpg's in town, 38 highway, its 4WD too.

lburners
Member
# Posted: 16 Apr 2019 20:51
Reply 


You guys should check out Our Planet on netflix if you got it. Amazing videography and lots of information.

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