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paulz
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# Posted: 2 Aug 2025 11:30am - Edited by: paulz
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I have the breakers but I leave that stuff connected when gone. My solar has no sweat keeping the bank up. Worse to wear out insides that way or disconnecting?
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 2 Aug 2025 01:59pm
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I like to have breakers on the in and out sides of the SCC because it makes disconnecting and reconnecting so easy if you have a desire to do something. Same thing at the PV panels. No tools required. The PV array used to be 325 feet down the south slope and the SCC at the upper end at the cabin.
I pull the SCC breaker to disconnect at the PV to SCC during lightning activity. In 2022 I moved the array closer to the cabin. (A wildfire took care of the old 75 foot pines that were in the way since building.) Now there is a 15 foot HD cable between the PV combiner and the SCC, etc at the cabin. Anderson PowerPole connectors allow a safe and easy removal during lightning events. After pulling the breakers, unplug and isolate and hopefully make lightning less likely to get into the cabin.
I don't worry about shutting down equipment to save wearing it out. With the old FLA batteries I used to leave everything up and charging all winter to keep the 8 vart batteries from discharging and freezing. Top Tier equipment should be able to do that. FWIW, I have a friend still using the Trace inverter charger he bought in 2000. He still has the old Trace charge controller on the original small array but newer Outback on newer additional panels.
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paulz
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# Posted: 4 Aug 2025 08:51am - Edited by: paulz
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My Meanwells paperwork is misplaced as usual but found online text saying the powered off consumption is <.5W. Unless I’m misunderstanding.
That said, one of the two I had wired to the bank quit a month ago (just testing, solar doing the job at present). Wonder if that caused a capacitor to wear out. Could have also been funky AC output from the genny but the other is still ok.
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gcrank1
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# Posted: 4 Aug 2025 10:56am
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At one time (back in my LA days) I had an automotive bat charger hooked up so whenever the gen ran the charger was pumping some juice into the bats, that worked out quite well.
I was intending to do the same with the LFP but that would require a proper new LFP charger. Then after using the LFP and finding how much (WAY) better it is I haven't used the gen but for only a very short time and only tested out my 200w of portable solar enough to know it works, we just swap in LFP #2 and take #1 home to charge. And where, as in post #1, my issue arose.
If I'd had the Meanwell hooked up at the cabin 'awaiting' some gen time Id have found this out long ago! Now I wonder if a new proper LFP capable automotive charger would also have a phantom draw?
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paulz
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# Posted: 8 Aug 2025 09:27am
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Quoting: gcrank1 If I'd had the Meanwell hooked up at the cabin 'awaiting' some gen time Id have found this out long ago! Now I wonder if a new proper LFP capable automotive charger would also have a phantom draw?
Played around a bit yesterday. The Meanwell, unplugged from AC power, drew .12 amps, immediately after the DC hookup spark, and that figure continued indefinitely.
Next the inverter, that drew 1.7 turned on with no AC plugged in, but turned off Zero, 0.
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gcrank1
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# Posted: 6 Sep 2025 12:16pm
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That looks like it accounts for my drain-down while hooked to the MW. Lesson learned!
Turns out I easily could have bought just one of the 100ah LFP's to run our cabin; our usage is mostly LED light and USB charging. The swap bats thing is convenient but a small 20ah LFP (or even a tired old small LA to carry-over) would have been fine until bringing the charged LFP back from home.
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paulz
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# Posted: 10 Oct 2025 10:48am
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Cloudy lately, plus the sun isnt clearing the hill much now. This morning my bank is at 12.8-9. It will come back with morning sun, or fire up the genny, but makes me nervous that low.
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paulz
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# Posted: 20 Oct 2025 12:27pm - Edited by: paulz
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YesterdayI fired up the big gen and ran my bank for about an hour, over 80 amps going in. I stopped at about 13.6 volts, I have run them up over 14 in the past, don't recall how long that took. Second photo is right afterwards, of one of the 4 batteries, other 3 within a hundredth of same.
Soon dropped to 13.2, the sweet spot. This morning way down to 12.8, first photo. Still cabin fine, even nuked my food. Green lights still flashing on bats. Got to be in danger zone, how much lower?
Sun coming up, solar time.
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gcrank1
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# Posted: 20 Oct 2025 02:40pm - Edited by: gcrank1
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With that kind of draw-down overnight Id be looking at what is drawing so much. Usage creep happens bit by bit over time but often just small stuff. Maybe time to do an energy audit and/or revisit the idea of energy conservation?
Fwiw, an no comparison to your situation, the LFP#2 I swapped in back in the end of July is now reading 13.1 after almost 3 full summer months (and NO recharging at all). We ran the ceiling fans whenever we wanted, which is our big draw, but really didn't amount to a lot of hours. The big usage starts now when we run the LP furnace and use the fan(s) to mix the air in the 12x28' space.
I cant remember the last time I had the gen hooked in and ran the nuker, I just dont mind using the sgl burner LP stove; kinda seems like camp-life 
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paulz
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# Posted: 20 Oct 2025 07:01pm
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Hi g, i have a full time ammeter going. It’s between 5-8 amps all the time. Fridge uses about 3, modem about 2. Those run 24 hrs. Throw in a few hours TV, half dozen bright LEDs, phone and laptop chargers, occasional water pump, nuker, toaster..
But yeah, does seem like the 15 year old lfps are feeling it. Fresh ones bought last Christmas are sitting under the bed waiting.
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Steve_S
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# Posted: 20 Oct 2025 09:20pm
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LOL. 15 year old LFP's and still going... how many FLA's woudl have been needed to replace that. Over teh 15 years, LFP is much more perfected and today's are quite an "upgrade" and will last even longer. BTW: don't mix those old ones with the new ones, there is too much difference between them, their curves won't match.
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gcrank1
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# Posted: 21 Oct 2025 09:33am
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Paul, I think Id up the recharge to 14.0 and run for an hour to sock more into them then see how you carry through over the 24hr swing. That would give you a decent comparison to the 13.6 for an hour.
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paulz
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# Posted: 21 Oct 2025 09:39am - Edited by: paulz
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Hi Steve, and thanks. Yes certainly got my money’s worth out of those Valences, though at the time they costed way more than today’s prices. I’ll continue to run them for a while, but with the sun now blocked by the trees and much less solar, rather than run a genny every day I may put the new set on swing over cables and test to see how much longer between charges.
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paulz
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# Posted: 21 Oct 2025 09:45am
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Just saw your post g, yeah I thought they’d run up above 14 like before, but they seemed to run up to 13.6 quickly enough, then just sat there. I will try again with the smaller gen, which is 50ft. From the cabin and I can stand that running for hours.
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gcrank1
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# Posted: 21 Oct 2025 10:44am
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Maybe the admonition to charging to 13.6 (on a '12v' system) does give the long bat life but doesnt pack in the top end ah's quite enough?
It sure seems with mine that after a couple seasons on moderate use and gentle recharging that they are now giving me more hours of use since upping the recharge voltage and time for 'saturation'.
All just 'impressions' since I dont have the meters or record keeping many use. Fwiw, for a while I was keeping notes then decided to just use them and stop obsessing, lol.
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paulz
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# Posted: 23 Oct 2025 09:53am - Edited by: paulz
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G, we've read how Steve and others warn that voltage is a poor indicator of state of charge, but for us dopes it is the simplest indication.
So yesterday after no charging for a couple days (my shaded solar now gives out under 5 amps for an hour or two), voltage was down to 12.79, yikes! But everything still working.
Later that morning I had to split some rounds with the electric log splitter so while the big genny was going I had the charger plugged in. Again it ran the bank up to 13.6 but no higher, even after an extra hour afterwards pumping in 80 amps. Dropped to 13.2 shortly after as usual.
The good news is this morning it”s still at 13.2, even after nuking the eggs and toast. A bit more watching but I’m becoming a believer in this voltage equals state of charge not so usefull.
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 23 Oct 2025 10:09am
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Quoting: paulz But everything still working.
I believe everything will still work until the batteries are almost 100% discharged.
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Steve_S
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# Posted: 24 Oct 2025 06:02am
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Small correction Paulz, I haven't said that Voltage is a poor indicator for any Lithium-based battery tech and some will argue that as you pointed out. Simply put, it is the only way to see your State of Charge and Depth of it. By depth I mean the saturation level, s opposed to the surface level which requires a slightly different way of accounting as opposed to FLA for example. The accuracy & calibration of the measuring device(s) is critical for this, so that the device reports actual voltage as seen on the batt terminals, taking into & corrected for losses along the wire - the proverbial offset correction.
Example, the Midnite Classic SCC's have offset settings so you can compensate for the line losses between SCC through to batteries. That will show True Voltage as a result. My Samlex Inverter does not have such a feature so I have to manually correct by including the offset values in the settings for both charging and discharging... BTW: the offsets are different between those two modes. This is a fact, but most trip over that, as it seems "unnatural" being electricity. Gauge & quality of wire does have an effect on this of course.
13.2V = 3.3V per cell is pretty good for 15 year old batteries. IF you could charge to 13.8V (3.45 vpc) and maintain a charge till that amperage drops to 5A that would fully saturate the cells (fully topped) they would still settle to somewhere around 3.380 - 3.350, For real accuracy to determine actual SOC, you need proper 3 decimal measurements which most gear unless really new won't do, and even then, the cheaper devices won't do that. FYI Midnite Classics only do 1 decimal point as they were designed for FLA, my Samlex EVO only does 2 decimal and designed for multiple chemistries from the outset. 2 decimal is most common now days. The voltage charts I posted previously show those breakdowns ... that 0.100 difference is actually significant when it comes to SOC. This is not the case for FLA etc.
PS: I just got up after a bad nights rest (neurovascular surgery 2 days ago and feeling cruddy) and only 1/4 of the way through coffee #1 so sorry if this is a tad muddled.
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FishHog
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# Posted: 24 Oct 2025 07:19am
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Steve, I always enjoy your posts, and always seem to learn something.
Hope you heal up well from the surgery and enjoy that coffee.
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gcrank1
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# Posted: 24 Oct 2025 09:17am
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Hope the NV surgery gives you a better quality of life, Steve! I have SVD and CKD which has wrecked me physically.
Paul, I snuck up on the saturation charge from my Meanwell (over time and re-charges) by upping it bit by bit and watching my bat voltage come up. Wonder if you cant get past the 13.6 because that is all that is being 'delivered' to the bats? (they cant get any higher than what is delivered).
When I upped the MW setting I broke through the threshold Id been stuck at. To be sure they still settled to about 0.1 higher than had been but I got a few more hours of top end power indicating to me that they had saturated better.
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paulz
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# Posted: 24 Oct 2025 10:55am
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Hi guys. Sorry Steve, i know Ive read that voltage not soc mentioned here before. There is some kind of shorting device that does a better job.
I have two voltage readings staring me in the face on my night stand. The bottom one more closely equals DVMs taken right at battery terminals. Right now I’m at about 13.1, which is a far improvement over the morning 12s I’ve seen lately. This without any gen charging yesterday. That charge they got two days ago when running the wood splitter really seemed to help wake them up.
I have to split another load today so more charging time. The chargers are set at 14.5 so that’s not hurting, and it still measures 80 amps going in even when the bank is stuck at 13.6. We’ll see if anything changed today.
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Steve_S
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# Posted: 24 Oct 2025 06:25pm
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The saturation level is shown by watching the amperage being taken in by the vatts. Say you get to 14.5V @ 80A going in (assuming your max charge amps is 80), that is a "surface charge" level, but as it saturates the Amperage going in will drop, the general rule is 10% of the AH capacity, so for a 100AH Battery it would be 10A. When the charger can only push 10A, you are fully saturated. Now you can safely continue that to 0A taken without harm or risk (gotta love LFP) and I personally suggest allowing that to happen 2x per year, usually in the fall before short days and in the spring as the long days approach for good health. Essentially it ensure that the all of the chemicals within are fully activated, as they can stratify a little bit (not like FLA stratification, which is very different of course.)
Prebuilt quality LFP batteries will tell you in their instructions that when you first get the battery, to fully charge it and allow the Amperage to fall to 5% of AH capacity to fully activate the cells. This applies to DIY batteries as well because any cell that has been in storage or without charge for 6 months or more OR if they've been frozen, the chemicals start to stratify and need to be fully activated prior to operation or you will never get the full AH's out of them... I've seen cells that were stored for over 12 months not be able to hit even 75% of capacity until fully activated, once activated you got everything out of them. BTW: I had this argument on DIYSolar with some armchair experts who even refused to accept what EVE & CATL stated in their own docs...
FYI: I gave up on DIYsolar when it started to get Politicalized and people started bad behaviours... Screw that nonsense, I want no part of that and don't need to be "called names" by fools. I think my last posting was about 6 month ago, maybe longer... I did answer a specific question addressed to me about a month ago, only to be abused by the individual but others jumped on him for it... Reaffirmed my descission. I'm happy to help in "our community here" but screw everyone else...
Happy to help everyone here, you are all the Best
Have a good one.
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Steve_S
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# Posted: 24 Oct 2025 06:28pm
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OOPS: Adding this separately. I highly recommend a Victron Smart Shunt, which is capable of 3 decimal accuracy and can be calibrated using a quality DVOM that is 3 decimal capable. The Victron shunts are not cheap but they are one of the best out there, you really do get what you pay for.
Steve
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paulz
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# Posted: 25 Oct 2025 07:27am
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Quoting: Steve_S The saturation level is shown by watching the amperage being taken in by the vatts. Say you get to 14.5V @ 80A
The odd thing is, Steve, the voltage under charge never seems to rise above 13.7 no matter how long the bank is on the charger, and amperage never drops below 80 going in. In the past, as you say, voltage would rise into the 14s and amperage would cut way back into single digits. I have checked tightness of all connections, felt for heat everywhere.. Would this be an explanation for old batteries? I could run the charger onto the new batteries and see if they will do like these used to.
The bright side is even after running the chargers for 3 hours yesterday and getting up to 13.7 with 80 amps still going in, I stopped. Bank dropped to 13,2 and stayed, still there this morning. The other thing I could try is taking one Valence and charge back to the grid and charging for a day or two with no generator blasting away, see if it goes to 14 with amps dropping off.
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Steve_S
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# Posted: 25 Oct 2025 08:19am
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It isn't likely caused by wires etc as you've checked all the usual "Suspects in the Crime". 15 years old and with the less advanced chemistry of the day, this is more than likely age related as at present Temparatures are a non-factor. If they were cold, say below 10C/50F that could drop the voltage too.
The Meanwells have 2 small adjustable pots that let you tweak the voltage/amps being output (varies by model & brand {MW Clones}) so you should double check at the Power Supply Terminals with a good DVOM to see if the output is still correct, I've seen some wander a bit over time.
* When doing so, ensure nothing is attached, just check at terminals.
* Next check with your wires attached but not the Batts to see if still correct at end of wire. It is possible the wires could drop a bit, but if I remember you already upgraded the wires which improved charging a while back... or was that Groingo ? I forget.
* Lastly recheck again at wire ends with the batts hooked up...
I forget how many you have in Parallel but another good test would be as you thought, take one home and charge it from Grid Power, just in case your Genny Power is misbehaving which is possible. Most gennies should be outputting @ 60HZ (for North America) but can actually be delivering from 57-63HZ pending on loads & grade of Genny (Inverter or not , new vs old & tired etc). Out of Range Frequency can have deleterious effects on numerous devices including power supplies and especially clocks. Lower than 60Hz, clock loses time, over 60Hz clocks gain time. * Also applies to Inverters !!!
FYI most of the lower cost gennies with lesser quality components can slowly deteriorate in output quality, this has been seen a lot.
Bottom line, In My Opinion the Valences are still Quite Healthy and good to go but with the older chemistry they are showing their age as expected. If you have access to the BMS' within, it may be able to tell you how many cycles they've done or if there is any internal issues. Sorry I am not familiar with the Valence BMS's and what they can do & report.
Hope it helps, Good Luck.
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gcrank1
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# Posted: 25 Oct 2025 03:40pm - Edited by: gcrank1
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Just had my #2 100ah LFP go into LVD last night, no display, no read at bat terminals; all shut down.
Got home with it a bit ago and quick jumped with my little 12v LFP (for my trail cam) and activated the BMS, read on the cheap integral meter is 12.6v, 12.52 on my Fluke vom.
This seems like too soon a LVD???
I cant change it anyway so just need to monitor it more closely when the bat is getting 'low'.
When we got there yesterday and started the furnace I turned on the small 120v ceiling fan on med to mix the air, bat read 13.1. It ran like that for about 8hrs before shutting down; dont remember how many amps the fan draws on med but I think that legitimately sucked what was left in the bat out.
Looking at past posts it looks like I swapped this #2 in the end of July, guess this has been a good long run.
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paulz
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# Posted: 25 Oct 2025 06:14pm
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I’ve been going by this online common graph. So both you and I were down in the borderline red range. Mine dont have LVDs that I know of. There must be some documentation of when yours kicks in.
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gcrank1
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# Posted: 25 Oct 2025 07:36pm
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Ive used similar charting, according to that I should be at 15%ish soc (leaving more on the table than I like).
The bat co literature states LVD as something less (iirc 11.8?) but this one has always shut down higher. By the time I found that out it was too long in time and the company had a fire that put em under.
Guess it means I have an 85ah bat.
Case is sealed or Id pop the top to see if the BMS is adjustable; good news is it has a functioning BMS.
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Steve_S
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# Posted: 26 Oct 2025 08:10am
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I'm attaching a chart I posted on DIYS which may be of interest... I think I've posted it on this forum but who knows in which thread now.
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paulz
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# Posted: 26 Oct 2025 12:23pm
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Thanks Steve. According to that chart even at 12.8 we’re still in the green zone.
My meanwells are set at 14.5. What I cant figure out is the bank gets stuck at 13.7 and no higher. And amps stay at 80, never dropping like they used to. Going back to the grid tomorrow, bringing a battery and charger for all day test.
Other than that looking good. Got some rain which may have helped my solar panels, banks been above 13 with no charging.
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