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Brettny
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# Posted: 6 Oct 2023 19:17
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I also thought about just useing a few 1500w electric heaters for quick heating prior to the wood stove working good. My generator could run two and there about $25 each. The cheapest direct vented LP heater I can find is about $600..then i also need a exterior wall to put it on and those are few and far between. $600 buys slot of gas and i only see running a generator for heat for maybe 2hrs max every trip when it really cold. That would at most be 3x a winter. I just dont see the pay back on a safe direct vent LP unit. For my needs.
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gcrank1
Member
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# Posted: 6 Oct 2023 19:51
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Fwiw, in spite of the claims of some marketers there is no magic elec heater that gets more btu's out of a watt. That is, any cheap 1500w elec heater will produce as many btu's as an overpriced 'magic' one.
The diff pretty much comes down to radiant or infrared and oil filled (slow but steady) or heating coils with a blower fan.
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ICC
Member
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# Posted: 6 Oct 2023 20:23 - Edited by: ICC
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Quoting: gcrank1 no magic elec heater that gets more btu's out of a watt.
A different method of using electricity to heat does produce more BTU's per watt. Heat pump technology. Three to four times, or more efficient when compared to resistance heaters. Unfortunately at more than 4 times the cost for the hardware, and not portable. But it can work well off solar. Plus they can also cool.
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gcrank1
Member
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# Posted: 6 Oct 2023 21:43
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Well more than 4x the $30ish apiece for new 1300/1500w milkhouse heaters!
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paulz
Member
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# Posted: 9 Oct 2023 15:15
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I’ve been toasting bagels on the lp toaster, they have been wonderful. A few years ago I replaced the open burner stove with this ‘ceramic’ one that has no open flame. No idea how it works, other than good. I also added a grill above the burner to keep the toast heat down.
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gcrank1
Member
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# Posted: 9 Oct 2023 17:14
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Looks good enough to eat 
Inspired me to make cheesy cast iron skillet cornbread this aft at home
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neckless
Member
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# Posted: 10 Oct 2023 02:09
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if you put a foil cover over toaster ... comes out just like the 1300 watter at home....
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jsahara24
Member
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# Posted: 10 Oct 2023 08:52
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I winterize our cabin and when I arrive to a cold cabin (~30 degrees) I fire a 60k propane torpedo heater to help bring it up to temp....I've never noticed any issues from doing it, we are going in and out bringing everything in and I leave a window cracked while its running....
Without the additional propane BTUs my pellet stove can raise the temperature about 10 degrees and hour....with the propane it doubles the temperature rise....
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Aklogcabin
Member
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# Posted: 10 Oct 2023 09:22
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A picture of our toaster in action using an ember
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paulz
Member
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# Posted: 10 Oct 2023 11:08
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Good tip on the foil, also the real world experience on indoor lp use. My lp cooktop says “for outdoor use only†(naturally). A few years ago I put in this vent made of free stuff, an old brass sink, piece of muffler tubing and an old usb computer fan inside. Oh well, it works. I don’t use it often, do all the heavy cooking outside. It vents through the roof, no idea why I put that vent in when I built the place (pre kitchen area, bathroom..) but glad I did. Guess it vents even with the fan off.
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Brettny
Member
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# Posted: 22 Oct 2023 20:43
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This weekend I brought my little buddy into my 24x20 cabin with big stand up loft. The heater is 11kbtu and I have come to the conclusion that non vented propane heat is a hard NO.
3' wide window cracked about 3/4in, no insulation, air leaks all over and I was in and out of the door many times. All it did was make the place smell terrible and did next to nothing for heating. I had it running for prob 6hrs yesterday. I can see it heating better with insulation but the smell isnt going to be better. I'm prety sure it gave me a head ache too.
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gcrank1
Member
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# Posted: 22 Oct 2023 21:08
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Fwiw: 1W = 3.41 btu's
So, a 1500W = 5118 btu's
I had to run the eth-blend regular gas out of my little gen the other day so I plugged in the milkhouse heater set to 1500. It was coolish inside and it took a fair long time to take the chill out of the 16x24 c/w cath ceiling, and I did run the ceiling fan to kick the heat back down/circ it/mix it around the room.
Not a surprise considering it equates to a 5000ish btu heater, but it did work and I had to run the gen anyway; win/win for me and a good practical test.
The past couple times up it has been cooler, we are well into fall in WI and temps night and day have been below normal. The closed up cabin certainly does hold the nighttime cool long into the day!
Firing up the 30k btu lp infrared wall heater works a treat in these shoulder seasons. Yesterday we went from 54*f inside to 74*f in a little over an hour. Sure felt nice coming in after some outside work .
If I would have needed to run the gen I certainly would have augmented that with the milkhouse heater, it just makes sense.
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paulz
Member
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# Posted: 22 Oct 2023 21:56 - Edited by: paulz
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Quoting: Brettny I have come to the conclusion that non vented propane heat is a hard NO.
Been going through that a bit lately too. I have 2 CO alarms. One, that has no display but goes off at 400 ppm, has gone off a couple times. The other has not gone off, the display reads in the 300s.
I suspected the wood stove or the LP cooktop (which says ‘outdooor use only right on it. So today, after being gone a day, I have the wood stove going but no cooktop use. No alarms, 000s on the other. Tomorrow morning I’ll fire up the cooktop and check.
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gcrank1
Member
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# Posted: 22 Oct 2023 22:48
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My infrared lp unit has never triggered the CO alarm, I suspect a 'blue flame' model would be like a cooktop or Buddy Heater.
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Brettny
Member
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# Posted: 23 Oct 2023 07:50
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Buddy heaters are catalytic not blue flame but I'm not sure it matters as your still having combustion in your living space.
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gcrank1
Member
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# Posted: 23 Oct 2023 10:48
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Duh/dope slap....
Ive never had a Buddy so that cat thing caught me.
When I was a grade school kid we lived in an old/leaky farm house. In winter, when I got up (even as a kid), it was my job to go down to the furnace in the old stone basement and feed in some oak chunks on the remaining coals. It took a while for them to get going...
So we got dressed for school and went to the kitchen with the doorways draped over with sheets and had b-fast with all the lp cookstove burners going and the oven door standing open. That was my place to sit in front of and prop my cold feet while eating.
We all survived, folks and 6 kids, in spite of no CO alarm, but that may be why Im pretty much immune to the smell of lp. In reflection Im sure that CO alarm would have gone off regularly and probably died from overuse.
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paulz
Member
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# Posted: 23 Oct 2023 12:28 - Edited by: paulz
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Quoting: paulz . Tomorrow morning I’ll fire up the cooktop and check
This morning I made breakfast. All 000s, no CO alarm. Fired up the wood stove, still nothing. Hmm. Then my wife reiterated something I mentioned a couple days ago: the generator! So I ran it for a bit and sure enough, got a reading. It’s outside though, of course, but the exhaust goes down underneath the front deck, maybe it’s finding its way up through the cabin floor. Or maybe through that window.. Guess it’s time for a new home for that. I had recently moved it there from a nearby shed just to be handy to use. It’s 300 dang pounds, no wheels.
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gcrank1
Member
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# Posted: 23 Oct 2023 12:36
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And that is how tragedy sneaks up on so many.....
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Brettny
Member
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# Posted: 23 Oct 2023 20:15
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I would say you have a decent sized air leak. Your wood stove have a fresh air intake? If not it can suck air from every poor seal in the building.
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paulz
Member
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# Posted: 24 Oct 2023 11:24 - Edited by: paulz
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Quoting: Brettny would say you have a decent sized air leak. Your wood stove have a fresh air intake?
No fresh air intake. Bit of progress though. Finally found where the exhaust comes out on this Onan 7000. It was given to me a few years ago when the school disassembled its ‘disaster recovery’ shed for some reason (I’m known as the guy who will take anything around here). It’s new, still on the pallet, albeit a little beat up on top. Anyway the exhaust comes out underneath pointing straight down, no wonder it was getting under the cabin.
So I spun it around so the exhaust came out off of the deck, ran it this morning, no CO inside! Now I just have to jockey it around some more, maybe find a pipe extension.
Behind that in the photo you can see the old genny I was using, a gas powered Honda, but it only could muster 40 amps to the charger. The Onan (LP) gives me almost 90. I was told it was an expensive unit.
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gcrank1
Member
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# Posted: 24 Oct 2023 12:02
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What a gen!
So glad yer gettin it sorted
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Tim_Ohio
Member
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# Posted: 24 Oct 2023 13:15
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Get yourself a CO monitor/alarm and set it in the cabin. It will tell you when the CO is a problem. If it goes off, open up the cabin and shut down the heater.
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gcrank1
Member
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# Posted: 24 Oct 2023 13:40
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We've already been there, Tim, that how we got to this point 
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spencerin
Member
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# Posted: 27 Oct 2023 23:21 - Edited by: spencerin
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Based on my admittedly somewhat limited research, vent-free propane heaters that are designed to be used indoors are actually very safe. Deaths from those are very rare. I believe most, if not all, of the deaths from vent-free heaters have come from using ones that aren't supposed to be used indoors, like tank-top heaters, which lack low-oxygen and tip-over sensors, and some of the deaths were due to fires started by a tip-over, not CO. The CO comes from improper combustion, and CO won't happen as long as the heater is in good working order and located properly. Combine that with low-CO sensors, and statistically speaking, you're safe. But, that very, very small likelihood of dying in your sleep is enough to just steer clear of them. I'm curious to see how hazardous a proper vent-free heater would be in relation to other hazardous activities we engage in every day, if such a comparison can be made.....
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paulz
Member
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# Posted: 28 Oct 2023 18:45
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Thanks for that Spence, use my indoor Mr. Heater occasionally.
Speaking of LP, yesterday in town I had four 5 gallon tanks refilled at the gas station on the way out. Been trying to start my generator with two so far, won’t fire. I then took the 1/2 full tank off my BBQ, fired right up.
What is it with freshly filled tanks? I loosened the bleed screw at the top for 10 seconds, no help.
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ICC
Member
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# Posted: 28 Oct 2023 18:56
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I've never had any issue like that. I assume the grille lights up properly with a newly filled tank?
-Izzy
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gcrank1
Member
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# Posted: 28 Oct 2023 19:09
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Are the the 'new' style safety valves?
There is a proper way to open them to avoid, or at least min. the no flow issue. They are made to shut off if they 'sense' there is a leak, lots online about it.
Iirc any valve with the big external thread EZ mount is the safety valve.
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paulz
Member
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# Posted: 28 Oct 2023 20:03 - Edited by: paulz
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Yes they have the external threads as do all my tanks. I got one to light the bbq. I took it back to the genny, still no pop. Tried all 4 at the genny, nothing. Had one more spare tank here, it ran the genny then the bbq, so I’m good for the night. The one refill that did run the bbq would not then run the genny, nor the bbq again, so maybe I’m opening too fast? Never had that happen before. The guy that filled them opened the bleeder screw while filling each one.
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paulz
Member
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# Posted: 28 Oct 2023 20:57 - Edited by: paulz
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Well I got one to run the genny. Guess it’s that OPD valve.
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ICC
Member
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# Posted: 28 Oct 2023 20:58
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Shouldn't opening the valve too quickly only be a problem, if ...
1. The connected device has a valve open... like a grill with the burner control open instead of closed?
2. There is a serious leak in the connected drvice?
-Izzy
I have only had the safety valve actuate once and that was on a seldom used piece of equipment where the rubber hose had been chewed on.
-Izzy
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